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Perhaps we should say instead 'did not pass elbows' or 'appears to have failed elbows'- Maleficent for example... I look at the OFA page Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO and see she has hips and elbows. This says to me that the owner knows about clearances. Her sire and dam have neither hips nor elbows on OFA which says to me they either failed them, or they were not done. There is also a slim chance they did PH but PH doesn't do elbows so for elbows, I see fails or not completed. Either one isn't ok. Full sib Patsy is lacking an elbow clearance in the presence of a hip clearance so I still see a fail especially given someone who does know they should both be done owns Maleficent. Paternal half sib Kismet same scenario, and then the grandparents are pretty much a train wreck - there is a passing elbow there but in the absence of hip, I assume failed hip. These are US dogs and to imagine they just didn't test when there are indications they are breeders and do test on their other dogs leaves no choice but a bunch of fails.
There is even more nuance on the OFA record, not on this dog but oftentimes we see hips done at a later date than elbows- especially if they are fairs, I make the leap that they failed first time around and were repeated to get an OFA number. The age at which the radiograph was done is embedded in the number so we can see whether they were done at the same time or not.
I am Ruth Elpers and you can see my beautiful Goldens on my web page :Elpers Kennels. I have been raising them now for over 20 years ,they are O.F.A on the hips (GOOD) I do take pride in my Beautiful dogs .They do have the title champions that every one is looking for, two litters coming in July.
I have to admit that I'm nitpicking about verbiage. For what it's worth, given what I've learned about goldens and OFA, I would take a "hard pass" on any puppy where there's gaps in the OFA certifications. I only checked 3 generations back for Kona, but all certifications were there (albeit some of the eyes were slightly out-of-date and many of the cardiacs were done by practitioner vice cardiologist). But, at least I had the opportunity/ability to check for myself and make a somewhat-informed decision.

For my $0.02, the fact that there's gaps in the OFA registry should be a huge red flag, irrespective of the reason for the gap(s). The inference that gaps are due to undocumented "fails" is almost "piling on". :)

For what it's worth, I believe that there should also be discussions about "ethical consumers", as both breeders and owners should "do the right thing".
1. you don;t know anything about Maleficent (BORN 7-14,16)I take it your just talking now let me tell you about my Maleficent she is OFA ,And Normal on elbows done both on 8/20/18 ,I did get her when she was just 8 weeks old for $4000.00 plus shipping just so you got the story right about my dogs .They are extra GOOD. With all the title champions .And I well not let any one put me or my dogs DOWN , that I have worked so many years to have the ones that every one tells every one where they got there Golden from .
Ruth Elpers
 

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Your own dogs are AKC CH?
I don't see a single titled dog on K9data with your name.

The core 4 bare minimum clearances are hips, elbows (after 24 months), heart done by cardiologist not practitioner, and eyes every year.
I don't have to know any animal to know if they have full clearances, which is why I pointed Maleficent out - that one animal has both hips and elbows. They are FAIR not GOOD ,and there is no heart or eye clearance on OFA. Her sib Patsy did not pass elbows and her sire and dam lack any clearances on OFA.
 

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No heart or eye clearances on any of them. They all come from untested parents and what history they do have is full of failed hips/elbows. I don't know what they are selling their pups for but couldn't pay me to take one. If you decide to go this route, get insurance BEFORE you check out puppies.
I don't know WHO you are writing about my dogs .But your wrong.I have No hip problems in my dogs .You have got to be a breeder writting bad things about my dogs .You have no idea about them . I have worked very hard to have the great Goldens and I do have them .Sorry you feel like you have nothing else to do but put things on here that isn't true at all.Maybe its because I do under sell every one ,so every one can have that great champion bloodline puppy for limited registered for only $1000.00.And not have to pay what I did $4000.00 each at 8 weeks old. You are very wrong and I'm 71 years old and I really don't have time for people like you saying things about me that's not true at all.Ruth Elpers
 

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Actually the point of this forum for puppy buyers is to help them discern what the OFA record is for any given program. It is what it is. There is no way to have passing OFA ortho clearances not-listed. If they are not listed, they are not passing. And every dog has a CH bloodline, if you go back far enough. Even this one Five generation pedigree: Elpers-Rosie Cinnamon Of Texas probably has a CH somewhere back there. That bitch was bred at least once, and she has zero clearances. Breeders who put CH on their own animals are knowledgeable about structure.This one didn't pass elbows: Pedigree: Elpers-Sensationa Sassey Sue and I see no CHs there either. I don't mean to be unkind but I do not see a CH in any dog you own. Maybe they are worth $1000, given the pedigree and assuming you raise them well, no one is stating otherwise...but claiming full clearances and CH pedigrees, that is something of an exaggeration.
 

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I don't know WHO you are writing about my dogs .But your wrong.I have No hip problems in my dogs .You have got to be a breeder writting bad things about my dogs .You have no idea about them . I have worked very hard to have the great Goldens and I do have them .Sorry you feel like you have nothing else to do but put things on here that isn't true at all.Maybe its because I do under sell every one ,so every one can have that great champion bloodline puppy for limited registered for only $1000.00.And not have to pay what I did $4000.00 each at 8 weeks old. You are very wrong and I'm 71 years old and I really don't have time for people like you saying things about me that's not true at all.Ruth Elpers
Okay, you're going to go there? I'm just a newbie consumer, but...

Assuming that this is your dog (Elpers Maleficient of Huntsville, AKC #SR94540006), then the entry on the OFA search only shows clearances for "Hips" (OFA, Fair) and "Elbows" (OFA, Normal). This is what was being referred to by the phrase "which is why I pointed Maleficent out - that one animal has both hips and elbows ". No one said, nor implied, that Maleficient has hip issues. Rather, that only the hips and elbows have certifications available. More importantly, clearances for eyes and heart are not listed on OFA's website, nor on K9Data's website. This does not conform to the GRCA's Code of Ethics for breeders, which identifies the four (4) certifications that should be passed (hips, elbows, eyes, cardiac) and posted to a publicly accessible website.

"Possess examination reports and certifications as outlined below to evaluate and document status concerning recommended screening examinations; and these reports should be publicly available in an approved online database."

And, here is the vertical pedigree for "hips" on OFA for Maleficient. Going back two (2) generations, there's not a single clearance posted for hips. The rest of the vertical pedigrees for elbows, eyes, and cardiac are not much better.

So...
  • You're confused and misinterpreted what was said about Maleficient's hips.
  • What is being said is factually correct with-respect-to certifications being available, or not, on the OFA website. If you think this is incorrect, your issue is with OFA, not with those on this forum who are attempting to help a consumer find a breeder that aligns to the GRCA's Code of Ethics for the breeding of golden retrievers.
  • You may, or may not, have "great Goldens". The problem is, as a consumer, the main resource available to me to research the health history of your dogs is incomplete. That's a problem, twice over. First, the missing certifications are big-red-flags. Second, the non-compliance with the GRCA CoE is another red flag.
As I said, I'm a newb to goldens. But, I'm trying to learn. I have zero aspirations of becoming a breeder, and likely know much less than you do about the breed, or about dog breeding in general. But, I try to excel in being an informed consumer. Taking your intent at face value, I can appreciate that you're trying to lower the cost of ownership for those looking to purchase a golden. But, the corners being cut on certifications, and the inability to effectively research the health history behind those under-market-cost-puppies is not worth the risk.
 

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And honestly, Mrs Elpers, you are part of the problem. This bitch: Pedigree: Kimberly's Golden Snuggles had a litter at around a year old, with zero clearances and you apparently sold her on full registration. What we do not need in Goldens is indiscriminate breeders. Nothing today is 'secret' and everything is out there for the perusal.
 

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And that dog... Kimberly's Golden Snuggles... I imagine owner might be same tied up with your pedigrees (because there are multiple crosses with your dogs)
and related to owner of Offspring of Kimberly's Shadow Kimberly's Shadow. Maybe you know, and maybe you don't, but look down on the list of offspring I just posted from Kimberly's Shadow. You'll see Walling Twyla there. Her brother Flame is on your website. That poor thing was sold at auction to be used as a mill producer. Hmm. Just hmm.
 

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First, this post is long. And, I apologize for that. But, I want you to understand where my comments are coming from...as a consumer, as a person buying a golden retriever from a breeder.

I went back and read through today's posts on this thread. I believe I can understand how you might feel attacked. I'd like to try to share my recent entry into the world of golden retrievers, and why things like the OFA registry became so important to me, and why I'd rather pay a little more for a puppy that has a verifiable health history.

We'd been talking about getting a puppy for some time. Years, in fact. At the top of our list was a golden retriever. But...

As I looked into the breed, there were so many things that made us concerned. First, there are the superficial issues. Size. We wanted a larger dog, but 60-to-70 pounds? Hair. Oh, that coat is so beautiful. But, we've not had a dog for 30 years, and that fur goes everywhere!

And, then, the not-so-superficial. I started reading about hip dysplasia, elbow issues, cancer concerns. Longevity. Larger breeds tend to have shorter lives. Part of "the years" was simply that we were not at a point in our lives where we felt it was fair to the dog to bring it into our lives. But, another part was the back-and-forth on the pros-and-cons of getting a golden.

For a while, we were strongly considering getting a "comfort retriever". The breeder we considered had a history of breeding for specific traits. The dogs being produced were "the right size", supposedly had fewer of the health issues associated with goldens, yet retained the general appearance and temperament that attracted us to goldens to begin with. The costs were eye-opening. But, we didn't consider this as the cost of "a puppy". This was the cost of a concerted breeding program, with some efforts being failures and having to be abandoned, to consistently produce a dog with "the best of the root stock".

In the end, we made the decision that what we really wanted was a golden retriever. While the "comfort retriever" had many of the "other qualities" we wanted, when all-was-said-and-done it was not a golden. And, that meant accepting the larger-than-we-really-wanted, the more-hair-than-we-really-wanted, and the potential health issues that concerned us about the breed. Bottom line? We had to come to a gut-level decision on "do we really want a golden, which means accepting everything that comes with the breed?"

And then, it almost came off-the-rails again. We wanted a female. Oh. My. Lord. "Spay at six months to avoid mammary cancer." "Don't do early spay because of issues with growth plates and ligaments." "Don't spay at all because of beneficial effects for other cancers." Honestly, we spent the better part of a year, after we had decided "yes, we want a golden", going back-and-forth on "do we want to deal with this issue, too?"

In the end, we ended up getting an adorable, female, golden retriever. But, because of all the concerns about health and hereditary issues, we wanted the best chance of getting a healthy puppy. We know there are no guarantees, but we also learned that there are ways to stack the odds in our puppy's favor. This is where the OFA certifications come in. This is where being able to go back generations into the puppy's lineage and being able to confirm an absence of genetic/hereditary issues becomes important.

So, while it may seem like there was a lot of piling on, I hope you can recognize that bringing a golden retriever puppy into our family is "a big deal". Sure, the puppy is cute. And cuddly. And fluffy. And funny. But, it's also a long term commitment. A commitment that, statistically, does not make as much "sense" as other breeds, those with less health issues in the breed's history. So, as much as saving some up-front money would be nice, I'd much rather spend a few extra $$$ up front to stack-the-odds in my puppy's, and our family's, favor.

I applaud your desire to make golden's more affordable for everyone. But, if the savings in up-front costs comes with a potential increase in longer-term health issues, especially if those issues have the ability to propagate throughout the breed, then the cost of a less-expensive-puppy is too high.

I wish you well...
 

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I don't know WHO you are writing about my dogs .But your wrong.I have No hip problems in my dogs .You have got to be a breeder writting bad things about my dogs .You have no idea about them . I have worked very hard to have the great Goldens and I do have them .Sorry you feel like you have nothing else to do but put things on here that isn't true at all.Maybe its because I do under sell every one ,so every one can have that great champion bloodline puppy for limited registered for only $1000.00.And not have to pay what I did $4000.00 each at 8 weeks old. You are very wrong and I'm 71 years old and I really don't have time for people like you saying things about me that's not true at all.Ruth Elpers
What about heart and eye exams?
 

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And that dog... Kimberly's Golden Snuggles... I imagine owner might be same tied up with your pedigrees (because there are multiple crosses with your dogs)
and related to owner of Offspring of Kimberly's Shadow Kimberly's Shadow. Maybe you know, and maybe you don't, but look down on the list of offspring I just posted from Kimberly's Shadow. You'll see Walling Twyla there. Her brother Flame is on your website. That poor thing was sold at auction to be used as a mill producer. Hmm. Just hmm.
That's beyond sad.
 
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