Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone heard of or purchased their puppy from Alpine White Golden Retrievers in Red Bluff, CA? Golden Retriever Puppies ca

I've read on this website to avoid any breeder claiming they specialize in a specific type or color or english cream. From what I can tell they do not, I've asked them what is behind the name (hope to hear back soon, just inquired today). We're hoping to find a reputable english cream breeder within 5-6 hours of Tahoe. Thank you.
 

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
Has anyone heard of or purchased their puppy from Alpine White Golden Retrievers in Red Bluff, CA? Golden Retriever Puppies ca

I've read on this website to avoid any breeder claiming they specialize in a specific type or color or english cream. From what I can tell they do not, I've asked them what is behind the name (hope to hear back soon, just inquired today).....
Did you actually read the page you linked for us? The opening lines make reference to "white" and "English creme" - English Cream and American Golden Retrievers White Goldens ... "SPECIALIZING IN EXQUISITE ENGLISH CREAMS!" ....We have large facilities such as large runs and pens to contain our lovable dogs when they are not in the house with us. ....Puppies selling fast......Before using PayPal to make a deposit, you must call or email to verify puppy availability Welcome to Alpine White Golden Retrievers!

... We specialize in European type English cream Golden Retriever puppies"

This is a puppy farm using all kinds of marketing ploys to sell their puppies as a business. Do a search of our forum for this breeder (search feature is at the top of the page - they are well known) They make this claim: "All of our breeding dogs are OFA hip, heart, and CERF eye certified." But I just went to OFA to search for the dam of the current litter offered and what do you know, No OFA listing. You can search OFA and K9data for "Alpine White" owned by these people and find dogs bred by these people without proper clearances.

Reputable breeders do not sell puppies based on the color of the coat. You are going to have to expand your search area and fly to another area of the country or to Canada to find a light colored dog from a really good breeder who does clearances.

Here are some links on previous threads you may find informative:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/443737-help-english-cream-breeders-ny.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/444353-english-golden-puppy-breeders-nc-sc-va.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/453097-icewind-goldens.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks nolefan for your input and help. To answer your question, yes I did review the website and hence why I had questions and wanted additional opinion on whether I should be concerned about certain things (PayPal, pens, the "white" and "alpine" claims). Not everyone here is as experienced in searching for a breeder as others so the help is appreciated.

In an email response I was told the parents of the current litter (Chaika and Garik) have their clearances and we'd receive those in the "puppy pack" and she has originals for us to see if we wish. The fact that they're not on the website and I cannot see anything on OFA or k9data halted me for obvious reasons (again, wanted to confirm I was correct). The "alpine" reference has nothing to do with the coat color according to the breeder, but she chose the name based on where she grew up.

Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas).

Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
Keep looking- and don't fall for the 'we will give you copies in the puppy packs' story- because by then you will be invested heart and pocketbook- and will probably not give the packs more than a cursory look.

Most every litter of Goldens has light colored puppies in it along with a darker one or two. Color is just cosmetic, you want the bones below the coat to be correct and the dog to have a predictable temperament (many of these type breeders unfortunately import pregnant bitches from eastern Euro countries) and whose owners really KNOW the girls and what will improve them. None of the hype (less cancer, calmer temperament, etc) are true and some are actually the opposite of the truth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Prism Goldens, we will keep looking! We've also spoken with Classic Heritage and West Coast Cream Goldens. We visited Classic Heritage and a few things concerned me: 1. the amount of dogs they breed and 2. the lack of communication post puppy pick-up that several others on this forum had with the breeder. Classic Heritage is also relatively expensive ($3,500) but to be honest if we felt comfortable with the breeder and all checked out I would still be willing to pay that (rather than spending the money to fly elsewhere).

Thanks for all your help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,698 Posts
Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas).

Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.
The problem with extreme color breeders is they are almost always in it for the money. They don't compete in any competitive venues, so claiming health is important is a marketing ploy and not an essential.

If you choose to go this route and continue to search by the marketing ploy term "English Cream" you will find less than reputable breeders. You will pay more for color and usually get much less in the form of health certifications. Many times the prices asked by color breeders are 2-4 times what you should expect to pay based on cakes offered. It is kind of like walking on to a car lot and saying I want a blue sedan and the deelwr saying "Well I have a used blue Kia or a new grey Lexus. They are the same price". Sure both a sedans and fulfill the same basic function but the difference should be reflected in a price difference.

Color marketing breeders with spotty health certifications are exactly what you are finding here. Classic Heritage is not likely to have full certifications. As an example their current stud dog only has a heart certification on OFA. West Cost has missing or deficient heart certifications and missing or expired eye certifications. At the astronomical prices they ask, I would experience full and easily verifiable health certifications.

At $2000-2500 you can get a puppy from parents with fully verifiable complete health certifications, plus generations of health certifications behind them and competitive accomplishments that show the parents are well made, structurally correct and/or biddable if you don't make pale color you main priority. .

Here are some resources in how to verify health certification claims.
Attached Thumbnails
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
Please take the advice of the folks on this board. They have a wealth of information to share. I've had goldens all my life, but never had to find a reputable breeder for myself, as my parents always took care of that. When it was time to find a breeder on my own, I took the advice of the amazing posters on this board, and couldn't be happier with the puppy I found with their help. Here is the thread I started last year. Post #10 has a great list to help start your search. Don't get caught up on color. Great dogs come in all shades. Good luck!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/404714-northern-california-breeders.html
 

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
Thanks nolefan for your input and help. To answer your question, yes I did review the website and hence why I had questions and wanted additional opinion on whether I should be concerned about certain things (PayPal, pens, the "white" and "alpine" claims). Not everyone here is as experienced in searching for a breeder as others so the help is appreciated. .....

Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas).

Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.
I apologize for coming across in such an impatient manner. We have so much information on this website regarding the pitfalls of choosing a breeder based solely on color of the dog that I do get a little sideways sometimes when someone says they understand that a breeder shouldn't be placing a lot of emphasis on "cream" color marketing but then appears not to be applying it in real time. The Alpine folks are just classic violators. It's frustrating.

Did you have a chance to read through the links I attached to the bottom of my post? The explanations given in them are pretty thorough. By placing color at the top of your list of requirements for a breeder you're setting a very strong filter on your search.

Truly reputable people compete in some way with their dogs. They just do, they're not sitting at home on their acreage selling over priced white puppies to unsuspecting people. They aren't farming puppies like livestock. It's very easy to say that a dog has a good temperament if the dog isn't ever leaving the house. Dogs that are anxious or easily upset can be ok at home and then be completely different out in the world. That doesn't translate well to a pet that you'd like to take to kid's soccer games, the lake to visit friends on the weekend, Saturday morning walks to get coffee etc. You want your puppy to be from a breeder who does things with their dogs to prove that they have stable temperaments.

Because so many people are simply raising light colored Goldens to sell for profit, it is very difficult to find hobby breeders. You may very well find a reputable breeder in your region who competes in obedience or field work with light colored Goldens but they are very hard to find. Here is a link to a breeder website that would be more in line with what you are looking for: https://www.kernowgoldens.com/about-us

Notice there is no mention of Paypal, 'world champion bloodlines", Cream or white or high tech, top notch "facilities" or kennels, no high pressure sales terms like "puppies selling fast" etc.. The breeder uses most of the space on the site talking about what activities she competes in with her dogs.

Here is a link to a long time breeder where you can see that the breeder favors lighter colored dogs but you can see that the emphasis is more on the form and function of the dog rather than the color: Golden Retriever Puppies | Ontario | Kyon Kennels Again, lots of talk about competing with their dogs.

Here's a place to check where you'll find attention placed on the whole dog, rather than just the color of the coat: CAPTAIN ? Chuckanut Retrievers Ask them for a referral if they don't have a litter planned soon. You can find heavier boned dogs with lighter colored coats, it just takes more research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thank you all very much for your help and I apologize for coming off uneducated about selecting a breeder that focuses solely on color. The truth is we love goldens off all shades but really enjoyed the blockier heads/bigger bones. Taking the advice of everyone here we're now simply looking for a breeder in the NorCal or PacNW area. If they happen to have heavier boned dogs with lighter colors all the better but we won't let that determine our search.

nolefan I plan to call Chuckanut soon to introduce myself and begin a conversation with them. Thanks for pointing out the website differences. Makes complete sense.

I've emailed some reps from the NorCal GR club to get their thoughts on any referrals in the area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,381 Posts
I know someone from our club has some nice lighter colored male pups ready to go now and there may be a few pups available soon from other breeders. Contact the breeder referral for the Pacific Rim Golden Retriever club PRGRCO.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,698 Posts
The truth is we love goldens off all shades but really enjoyed the blockier heads/bigger bones. Taking the advice of everyone here we're now simply looking for a breeder in the NorCal or PacNW area.
If they happen to have heavier boned dogs with lighter colors all the better but we won't let that determine our search.
You may want to attend a dog show. It seems to be a common misconception that American dogs are all fine boned with narrow heads. Some are, especially in field trial lines but you may be very pleasantly surprised that most US show little news have nice heads and quite a bit of substance.

I have 2 American show girls and an Italian import. Guess who has the least bone and head substance? My Italian. I love what she is and she is not weedy but lacking bone substance is not uncommon in European show lines when compared to US show lines. Heads are a different style but most American show looks be heads will have as much and sometimes more substance.

Get out to a show, take a look in the ring and see if you perception of American dogs holds true.
 

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
Tahoehines, thanks for updating us on your progress. I hope you will come back and let us know how things are going, eventually I hope you'll be here introducing us to your knew puppy and sharing photos. I have had a Golden in my home for 20 years but learned the most from the experienced folks I've met through this forum. The education you can get here with your eyes open is top notch. I hope you'll take LJack's suggestion and maybe venture out to a show.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
English Creme pups

You should not apologize for wanting information on selecting a breeder! I looked for several months on a website Golden Retrievers of Montana - they include bordering states.

Here is a breeder where I am getting a pup. I have been sent the health certs for both the mom and dad for heart, eye, hips and elbows. The males are $1,500, the female $1,650 - breeding rights are more, but many breeders will not sell them. Mallory will answer any questions you have, describes the temperament of each pup. The pups are in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Both parents are from Serbia.

Look on facebook on Osgood Acres Golden Retrievers. They have posted pictures of each pup, and videos. You choose your pup when they are six weeks old, and they keep them until eight weeks. These pups are four weeks on May 23. Happy to help if you have more questions.
 

Attachments

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
Osgood Acres with dogs from Serbia and selling full breeding rights on the puppies they let you pick out at 6 weeks old? Why would this breeder be selling puppies for different prices based on sex? None of this is typical of a reputable hobby breeder and they're not competing with these dogs. At first glance, this doesn't appear to be a great breeder. What are the registered names of the parents of this litter you're suggesting so we can verify on OFA? Since I find no mention of them on k9data and no mention on the page of the dogs registered names I would be surprised if we found OFA clearances on both parents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,665 Posts
Pedigree: Serbian Ch Tiara's HeartsofGold Rock My World
Pedigree: Nalimana Magic Carnelian

Well, this breeder has two dogs on k9data- one of them claims foreign clearances, the other claims excellent prelims but neither are on OFA.
OP- I would not trust this any further than I could throw it. And who sells their CH bitches if the ch took any effort to acquire? I dk Serbia dog shows but imagine it's not much if they sold her...if it is truly an earned title. These FB breeders are really ____________________. (irritating, fly by night, difficult to verify, fill in the blank)

mallory marshall also input this dog to the k9database- http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=825923 not sure if it was an idle thing or if (hope not-he is underaged) it is the stud dog and she was bred before flying her to the US. Wyoming Golden, you could tell us in your second post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,085 Posts
One important thing to know...if a dog gets a final (done after the dog is 24 months and the only one that is a clearance (meaning any x-rays taken before a dog is 24 months old called a prelim)) hip or elbow clearance (meaning it passed) that ALWAYS gets published on the OFA website. That means if a breeder claims their dog has an OFA clearance for hips or elbows but you can't find that dog listed on the OFA website as having that clearance, the breeder is not telling the truth. There are very few reasons why this would not be the case. The OFA may have just given the clearance and it is not yet entered on the website, but if puppies have been born that would mean that the parent was bred before it had the clearance. There also could be a spelling issue, but unless the breeder can direct you to a file on the OFA website showing the dog has hip and elbow clearances, they don't
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I know someone from our club has some nice lighter colored male pups ready to go now and there may be a few pups available soon from other breeders. Contact the breeder referral for the Pacific Rim Golden Retriever club PRGRCO.com
Thank you ArchersMom and all others for your continued help. I reached out to Kathy at the PRGRC who suggested I reach out to Debbie Barry at Sunshine Goldens in OR. I emailed Debbie who forwarded my information onto Chris Crawford from Takatia Golden Retrievers. Chris does in fact have 2 males from a litter born on St. Patty's Day so currently 9 weeks old. I explained our very active lifestyle in the email so both Debbie and Chris responded relatively quickly as Chris feels one of the boys might be a good fit for our lifestyle. There were 10 in the litter. She said she had them graded by Pam Hastings (is that common) and 9/10 were show quality, including the 2 males that remain. She socialized them following the "Rule of 7" which was good to hear about.

We had a 30 min call yesterday with Chris and immediately I could tell the difference between her and other previous breeders we spoke with (such as Alpine White or Classic Heritage). I had the puppy buyers checklist questions ready to go but she answered most of them without me even asking. Chris is a vet in Salem, OR and this is her 2nd litter (first also from bitch Lexie).

Here is the information on the parents:
Sire: "Bounce" - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Dam: "Lexie" - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Is there any need to be concerned about the Mar 3 2016 Eye testing? Looks like she was "normal" again a month later. Also, I see on K9data that the sire was tested normal for eyes on 1/9/17 but I don't see the clearance on OFA (Pedigree: Crangold Sunshine's Skiing Cross Country). Any concern there?

We plan to follow up with Chris next week after providing her more information. Salem is about a 9 hour drive from Truckee, is that a concern when bringing a puppy home (safer to fly it home?). Any and all comments/thoughts would be appreciated before we take the next steps. Thank you all again.
 

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
Did you ask the breeder about Lexie's eyes? Hopefully Prism or Tahnee will see this and have some input, I'm not knowledgeable enough about eyes to answer. Ask to see the sire's eye clearance. It apparently wasn't submitted to OFA and by now it should have been. This is a very legitimate concern and as long as you are respectful, the breeder should understand and be very forthcoming. You really need to see it. I wouldn't purchase a puppy without it. Eye issues in Goldens are way too serious.

The trip is up to you. A puppy should travel fine, you'll want a crate though. Probably going to be too big to fly under the seat at that age.
 

·
Kristy
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
I'm guessing you meant she had the litter evaluated by "Pat Hastings" who is a well known expert in dog structure and in what traits to look at in puppies in determining which ones should grow into correct physical form for conformation showing and performance. The correct structure is important for more than just good looks, it's necessary first and foremost so that the dog is able to physically perform the job it was bred for without breaking down.

You might ask questions about why the litter is being bred and why she chose the sire etc. Is she keeping a puppy, what is her hobby with her dogs? The parents of this litter have no titles listed on k9 data to give an indication of why she's wanting to produce puppies from them. This is not necessarily a problem, there may be other reasons she's breeding, certainly there is a market for nice pets with health clearances. This would not be a breeding you would expect to pay above market value for a pet puppy for. Not sure what that would be in your area, but be sure you know what breeders in your region set as a price for pet puppies from parents with clearances but not a lot of titles. This would be something that people at the Golden clubs in your region could probably give you a ballpark range on.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top