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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

First post from a newbie from downunda :) I just want to say that this is a great place with so much information and so much kindness! We have a male Golden Retriever named Zappa, he'll be 8 months old next week.

Young Zap has this wierd thing happening. It first appeared a couple of days after Christmas. It was late at night and we'd gone to bed when he became quite agitated, wouldn't settle, his rear legs would jerk or paddle at random. He would suddenly get up and run to a different spot in the house looking quite scared. It was pretty freaky for Gail and myself - we called the 24 hour emergency vet number and were seen by a vet not far from home.

By the time we arrived Zap had calmed down a bit, the Vet did a blood test to check for snake bites - which came back all clear. He gave him an injection of diazepam (I held my arm out for mine!) and we took him home where he settled down nicely.

A week or so later it happened again. Late at night Zappa became agitated, he would lay down trying to settle but his eyes showed fear. Patting him sometimes saw him jerk back and pull away with a look of "who are you?!?". It was scary stuff. Remembering what happened a week ago we waited, trying to sooth him. Then sometime later (early morning hours are hard to keep track of) he layed down but he looked strange - his face/snout looked puffy. We called the emergency Vet service again - 20 minutes later we were at different surgery with a different vet to before. He gave Zappa a shot of Macrolone (Prednisone) and a shot of sedative. He insisted that we leave Zap there so he could watch him...man that was hard, leaving him there. It was 3:30 in the morning.

The next day Gail picked him up and spoke to another vet at the clinic - they suspected that Zap had been stung or bitten by something. Just like the other Vet a week or so before. They gave us some macralone tablets just in case it should happen again. That night when I got home I discovered this place and you wonderful people...

Benadryl. Diphenhydramine. It use to be available as such down here, I remember my mother had a bottle at home every Winter. However the benadryl tabs you guys have in the US are not available down here. I visited the Chemist the next morning and asked him about Benadryl - the syrup was available but it had other stuff in it as well as the Diphen. I told him I wanted straight Diphenhydramine - he smiled and showed me a bottle of a children's sleep mixture. Straight goodstuff. The Chemist gave me a 10ml syringe as the Diphenhydramine was 2.5mg per ml. 10mls would give Zap 25mg. "Right!" I thought to myself...

A week later it happened again. Late at night the "heebee geebees" as we call them started. We gave him some Macrolone and watched, comforted and waited. Hours seem to pass without any increase in distress, no swelling but no settling either. I then went through our reciepts from the Vets and found that the sedative was Pamlin. We had some Diazepam and remembering that a doctor friend once gave her pooch some diazepam - we snuck 2.5mg down Zappa's throat. After half an hour or so he started a fitfull sleep - another half an hour and he was out to it. Fast asleep.

The next morning we went back to see the Vet (Zap of course is happy as Larry, no signs of any distress) and asked about allergic reactions, I mentioned this place and Diphenhydramine (and that I had some!) and she said that if it was to happen again to give him 25mg. In the meantime she would get us some Iramine tablets. A couple of days later the Iramine arrived, we prepped our boys (both in their 20's who "semi" live at home :uhoh:). We were stocked - we had Macrolone, Iramine, Diazepam and if we ran out of Iramine we had Diphenhydramine. Starting to sound a bit suss isn't it?!?

In the last 10 days there has been two episodes, the last was last night. The Heebee Geebees started and we ended up giving Zappa 3 Iramine tabs in 8 hours - still within the dose limits but it really didn't have the effect or relief we expected. It was nearly 3 and half hours before we could comfortably leave him. Then I found this...



What poor Harry is doing is what Zappa does! Except Zappa is really scared - like he's having a bad trip or something. Quickly moves from place to place within the house, his back legs twitch and paddle, he chews on his back feet then seems to settle. Then he jumps up as if he's been jolted and runs to another spot to cower. It's really distressing for all concerned.

If it wasn't for the swelling/allergic reaction a few weeks ago I'd suspect he's been having some sort of seizure. I'm starting to think that the sedative action of the antihistamines is what is calming him down. I'm going to try and get some video footage when it happens again - for you guys and the Vet.

Any thoughts?

And thanks for this place and thanks to the mods/admin for allowing me to lurk while I tried to sort things out!

Cheers,
Pete :)
 

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sorry I am absolutely no help, just wanted to send hugs to Zappa. I'm sure some one will be along soon who can help
 

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MEG
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Hi and welcome to the forum. My thoughts on this (thats all they are are thoughts) is that these are some kind of focal seizure. I remember when Emma posted this about Harry. However, it wasn't until she posted a recent update about some weird behaviour that Harry displayed that I started to think this way. His most recent episode was different to this but I tend to think they may be related. Have you thought, should it occur again, about capturing it on video it to show the vet? I hope it doesn't happen again but if they are seizures just remember, Zappa wont actually know anything about it, despite looking scared, it's more distressing for you!
 

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shadow friend
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If it happens to be seizures, there is a medicine you can give him that should allow him to live a seizure free life. I personally have no clue or idea what is up with Zappa. I do know, however, that he is a lucky dog to have a family so in love with him and concerned about him that you would not hesitate each time to take him to the vet to make sure he's okay. I know he repays you with all the love in his heart he has to give. It's a beautiful thing to see this kind of bond and love between people and their dog.
 

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I am so sorry that your Zappa is having problems. If it is like Emma's Harry, then it might be a seizure. Since they are starting to happen more and more, you might ask the vet if they can be seizures and try some seizure meds. There is phenobarbital or potassium brohmide. Start out with a very small dose to see if it helps. My Beau used to have seizures and they always seemed to happen during the night when he was sleeping. This website might help you to give you some information on what it could be http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/CanineEpil.htm If they are seizures he can live a full and happy life. You might sit on the floor with him and quietly talk and pet him. Also after one of the incidents give him a small amount of vanilla ice cream.
Also I would start to keep a journal on everything that he eats, does and meds that he might take each day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts and very helpful replies - it's a comfort knowing you guys are here!

I was just thinking, is it true that dogs don't remember or know what is happening when they're having a seizure? If so Zappa may not be having seizures afterall...we keep treats in a little bag for when he goes on walks or for training purposes. As he doesn't like the Iramine tablets we've been bribing him with a treat, slipping the tablet down his throat and then quickly offering another treat so we know the tablet has gone down. Otherwise the sneaky little bugger eats the treat and then a little while later spits the tablet out!

The reason I mention this is because he really knows the "sound" of the treat bag, especially when it's being opened. During these awful episodes if we open the treat bag (like when we're giving him a tablet) he hears it and immediately jumps up and runs to whoever has the bag. If he was having a seizure would he know or remember the sound of the treat bag? Maybe he would...and just not remember that he remembered?

Thanks again - I'll let you know how we get on...

Pete :)
 

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I don't think I can help on this one.

I've owned an Epileptic Dog, and you just don't break them out of a seizure by petting them. At least none of the 50-75 that Dakota had over his lifetime.

I find it odd that Benedryl is not available in Aussieland. Very strange...

And Diazepam (aka Vallium) is commonly used during and post seizure. I had a box of suppository "bullets" that I had to, um, "apply" to Dakota when he was having a seizure. It helps break them out of it.

Hi,

First post from a newbie from downunda :) I just want to say that this is a great place with so much information and so much kindness! We have a male Golden Retriever named Zappa, he'll be 8 months old next week.

Young Zap has this wierd thing happening. It first appeared a couple of days after Christmas. It was late at night and we'd gone to bed when he became quite agitated, wouldn't settle, his rear legs would jerk or paddle at random. He would suddenly get up and run to a different spot in the house looking quite scared. It was pretty freaky for Gail and myself - we called the 24 hour emergency vet number and were seen by a vet not far from home.

By the time we arrived Zap had calmed down a bit, the Vet did a blood test to check for snake bites - which came back all clear. He gave him an injection of diazepam (I held my arm out for mine!) and we took him home where he settled down nicely.

A week or so later it happened again. Late at night Zappa became agitated, he would lay down trying to settle but his eyes showed fear. Patting him sometimes saw him jerk back and pull away with a look of "who are you?!?". It was scary stuff. Remembering what happened a week ago we waited, trying to sooth him. Then sometime later (early morning hours are hard to keep track of) he layed down but he looked strange - his face/snout looked puffy. We called the emergency Vet service again - 20 minutes later we were at different surgery with a different vet to before. He gave Zappa a shot of Macrolone (Prednisone) and a shot of sedative. He insisted that we leave Zap there so he could watch him...man that was hard, leaving him there. It was 3:30 in the morning.

The next day Gail picked him up and spoke to another vet at the clinic - they suspected that Zap had been stung or bitten by something. Just like the other Vet a week or so before. They gave us some macralone tablets just in case it should happen again. That night when I got home I discovered this place and you wonderful people...

Benadryl. Diphenhydramine. It use to be available as such down here, I remember my mother had a bottle at home every Winter. However the benadryl tabs you guys have in the US are not available down here. I visited the Chemist the next morning and asked him about Benadryl - the syrup was available but it had other stuff in it as well as the Diphen. I told him I wanted straight Diphenhydramine - he smiled and showed me a bottle of a children's sleep mixture. Straight goodstuff. The Chemist gave me a 10ml syringe as the Diphenhydramine was 2.5mg per ml. 10mls would give Zap 25mg. "Right!" I thought to myself...

A week later it happened again. Late at night the "heebee geebees" as we call them started. We gave him some Macrolone and watched, comforted and waited. Hours seem to pass without any increase in distress, no swelling but no settling either. I then went through our reciepts from the Vets and found that the sedative was Pamlin. We had some Diazepam and remembering that a doctor friend once gave her pooch some diazepam - we snuck 2.5mg down Zappa's throat. After half an hour or so he started a fitfull sleep - another half an hour and he was out to it. Fast asleep.

The next morning we went back to see the Vet (Zap of course is happy as Larry, no signs of any distress) and asked about allergic reactions, I mentioned this place and Diphenhydramine (and that I had some!) and she said that if it was to happen again to give him 25mg. In the meantime she would get us some Iramine tablets. A couple of days later the Iramine arrived, we prepped our boys (both in their 20's who "semi" live at home :uhoh:). We were stocked - we had Macrolone, Iramine, Diazepam and if we ran out of Iramine we had Diphenhydramine. Starting to sound a bit suss isn't it?!?

In the last 10 days there has been two episodes, the last was last night. The Heebee Geebees started and we ended up giving Zappa 3 Iramine tabs in 8 hours - still within the dose limits but it really didn't have the effect or relief we expected. It was nearly 3 and half hours before we could comfortably leave him. Then I found this...



What poor Harry is doing is what Zappa does! Except Zappa is really scared - like he's having a bad trip or something. Quickly moves from place to place within the house, his back legs twitch and paddle, he chews on his back feet then seems to settle. Then he jumps up as if he's been jolted and runs to another spot to cower. It's really distressing for all concerned.

If it wasn't for the swelling/allergic reaction a few weeks ago I'd suspect he's been having some sort of seizure. I'm starting to think that the sedative action of the antihistamines is what is calming him down. I'm going to try and get some video footage when it happens again - for you guys and the Vet.

Any thoughts?

And thanks for this place and thanks to the mods/admin for allowing me to lurk while I tried to sort things out!

Cheers,
Pete :)
 

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I will say, though, that every Seizure that Dakota ever had started when he was asleep.

I'm not sure what a "Focal" Seizure is. Dakota's were all "Grand Mal" (sp?)
 

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MEG
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In a focal seizure, the abnormal electrical activity arises in a small area of the brain and the dog is usually alert and aware. Symptoms may include twitching, fly snapping, running uncontrollably or engaging in senseless, repetitive behaviour. They can be divided into simple (no impairment to conscious level) or complex (altered conscious level ) therefore the behaviour displayed depends on the portion of the brain affected. Both = bizzare behaviour and not a typical grand mal epileptic seizure.
 

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Interesting. I was not aware of these...

In a focal seizure, the abnormal electrical activity arises in a small area of the brain and the dog is usually alert and aware. Symptoms may include twitching, fly snapping, running uncontrollably or engaging in senseless, repetitive behaviour. They can be divided into simple (no impairment to conscious level) or complex (altered conscious level ) therefore the behaviour displayed depends on the portion of the brain affected. Both = bizzare behaviour and not a typical grand mal epileptic seizure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi guys,

I just wanted to let you know that since I last posted Zappa has not had an 'episode'. However I was speaking to a Doctor friend about the problem and she said that it sounded like a focal seizure to her as well. I mentioned the one night where his face all puffed up, she thought a bit then suggested that perhaps he had a seizure and an allergic reaction - on that night perhaps there was two problems. That made me think!

Our vet said that one of her cats has to go on to antihistamines every January due to allergies. She's never been able to pinpoint exactly what it is that causes the reactions apart from it being seasonal.

So may be Zappa has a similar problem - it may be a seasonal thing and then it possibly triggers a seizure...

Anyway I thought you might to see him - apologies for the green and red eyes
he's now 9 months old and pure joy :)
And sincere thanks for your advice and support. You're wonderful!










 

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New Mommy
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Great news and great pics too !!!
 
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