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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since finding our way to Golden Retriever forum last month when we tragically lost our beloved Golden at 2 years, 10 months old to cancer, we have encountered many sincere and wonderful people, from breeders to dog lovers to grief counselors and doctors, and many of you on the forum who have displayed an outpouring of compassion and kindness. Your kindness has helped us greatly. We have felt good about how genuine and sincere Golden lovers are.
We have spent endless hours in the last month researching the breed, breeders, Golden health, vet and holistic care, diet, and communicating with experts in order to better educate ourselves and prepare for raising a Golden again. As we have been searching for another puppy to bring into our home, we are sorry to say we have also encountered a “reputable” breeder who has not been so pleasant, a breeder who prides themselves on reputation, ethical breeding practices, health and pedigree, but hasn’t a clue about professionalism, compassion, or communication with people. I am shocked and truly disappointed in the way in which this breeder chose to handle our inquiry about a litter. The breeder, from the DELaware, MARyland, VirginiA area, has an application that we submitted. We received no response after submitting it until we emailed several times inquiring about an upcoming litter. We then received an email about the upcoming litter that we could wait for it, leading us to believe we were in fact on the waiting list. It states that an interview is to be conducted. We were not contacted for the interview. After we sent a few more emails, one in which we requested a different sex puppy, the breeder very rudely stated that my husband and I didn’t communicate very well and one of their puppies was not for us. (We communicate just fine and are usually sitting beside one another when we send the emails). Ok, fine that is the breeder’s decision to make, however don’t claim that you interview prospective puppy owner’s after receiving an application when you didn’t even give us the courtesy of a phone call to discuss our application with us. This breeder is also apparently such a good judge of character that it can be determined from a few emails, without ever meeting us, that our home does not measure up and is not suitable for one of their puppies. I am disappointed that this is someone who appears to have a good reputation and has people believing that and this is someone who doesn’t treat people very well and is severely lacking professionalism and common courtesy.
But it turns out we do agree on something, we are not interested in obtaining a puppy from this type of person.
 

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Where The Bitches Rule
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I am sorry your experience was not a good one. In the long run it may be just as well as if you and the breeder do not hit it off from the get go the whole puppy experience quite often is not a good one. It does not mean that one's side was right and the other was wrong so much as it is just not a good match. I am a firm believer, been on both sides of the fence, that the breeder/puppy family relationship is in the top three of importance when looking for a pup. Hoping your search takes a better turn in the very near future.
 

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I'm in the Florida area--sorry you're not closer to me as I know several breeders down here that you would be able to interview.
 

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the party's crashing us
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Sorry you had a bad experience. But there are a LOT of good breeders out there, if one doesn't give you the communication you want, then move on.
Dog breeding is not a controlled industry, it's individuals conducting their business how they see fit. There are good apples and bad, as with anything.
 

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I'm sorry you feel that way but I stand behind my decision NOT to sell you a puppy. I was not unprofessional. I told you you were not the right home for one of my puppies which I have the right to do. I was not rude in any way shape or form. What IS rude is the response I received back from Rick which confirms my gut instinct not to sell you a puppy.

I received your application on October 23rd. Rick emailed me on October 25th asking if I received it. I responded back the SAME day that yes I did (however, I did not get a chance to read through it). I also stated that I was having an ultrasound done on my litter that was due Thanksgiving Day and to contact me for the results if I didn't get back to you and we could go from there. No way did I state that you were on a waiting list and would be receving a puppy. You contacted me October 28th asking me about the DEW litter which were all spoken for and I had told your husband that (hence the non communication comment). I also told you about another litter sired by my boy Jesse if you wanted to get a puppy sooner.

If you bothered to read my web site it states clearly that once the interview has taken place THEN and only then your name will be put on my waiting list. The application is the first step and I "weed" out people by the answers they give (or lack there of).

Being turned down has nothing to do with what sex puppy you wanted.

As I stated in our last correspondence, I wish you the best in finding a puppy.


Sue Rocco
Delmarva Goldens
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Actually, this is what you said:

"The Dew litter is completely reserved. I told your husband that I have a
litter due Thanksgiving Day. Puppies would be ready for homes late January.
If you want a puppy a bit sooner, contact....
Or you could wait for my litter."-Sue

I replied, "We would like to have one from your litter."

It would have been nice if you had been honest with us and informed us upon receiving our application that we did not measure up to your expectations for your puppies instead of playing games with us for a month and then flippantly telling us in an email after criticizing our communication skills.
(A simple phone conversation could have prevented this.)
It appears that you were the one who miscommunicated.
 

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shadow friend
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I think it would be really hard not to take it personally if a breeder tells you that your home isn't "right" for a puppy. And reading the background info of losing their not even 3 year old golden to cancer, I don't know, one would think that DG should have been much more sensitive towards KCN - knowing 1. can you imagine the pain of that loss? and 2. a decent human being would understand why they would be extra excited / mailing more about getting their next one.

I know I'm being a nosy Nellie here but I've gotta side with KCN here. You are also terribly rude in your answer here which completely backs up KCNs view of what went down. I think you really should be more compassionate towards the people who come to you trusting in you as a breeder - I think you need to work more on the human part of the business.

KCN - shake it off, let it go. Look for a different breeder. This isn't going to work out and you are only going to upset yourself more. With Max, I looked at several people with puppies until I found Max's breeders and it should be obvious how much I love him - it's like he was meant to be ours. Your puppy is still out there waiting for you to find it. Good luck!!!
 

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I'm going to be in the middle here.

We had to let Bennett go in Auguest due to lymphoma. I've been contacting breeders in our area & within several states. Sending in the application, exchanging emails, and phone calls. Lots of research and making contacts because you never know what will happen.
With one poor breeder, I got tied up during the time frame that I should have called her. With no response to phone calls or emails for a week, I thought I blew it. Turns out that week was a very busy time for her personally and with her litter, which I was not aware of. We laughed about it after we finally got in touch.

For those of us looking:
Remember that the breeder has a non-puppy life (really? how dare they? :p) and has the care of the dogs and current puppies to oversee. I know that when it is my future puppy in his/her care, I want the full focus on that litter and the future owners.
And it hard for the breeders to be pulled in so many directions - non-puppy life, current owners of past litters, future owners of current litter and potential future owners. Loss of sleep, the physical demands of caring for the litter and anxiety about choosing the right future owners - all stressors. And dealing with those of us who want attention or puppy - NOW!

For the breeder:
Many of us looking for puppy have recently lost a valued member of our family. We are anxious to again experience the joy that a dog brings to our life. We forget or didn't realize that you receive lots of interest in your litters. For many of us, we are still very emotional and vulnerable due to our loss - things that wouldn't normally bother us will often bring us to tears.

A little more understanding/compassion on both sides would be better for everyone.
 

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Motomax, my response is not rude. I went back and read all of Kathleens posts on this forum and I still believe she is not the home I am looking for. Why is that rude? I am being honest. Also she lives 3 hours and 35 minutes from me. Can she not find a puppy from a good breeder closer to her? She did state she went to look at puppies and talked to many breeders.

I still get a bad feeling about this whole situation and my gut is always right. For one person who is not happy with the way I handle my business I have 50 more who are completely satisfied.

I myself have been told I was not suited for a show puppy. Did I start bad mouthing the breeder? No I did not. You move on.
 

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Missing Selka So Much
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momto max: you do not know all the facts here so why would you even take sides?

Obviously there was miscommunication and since we aren't the two parties involved we have no idea of everything that transpired.

I am very sorry KCN lost their young golden to cancer, that is indeed tragic beyond words but none of us have any clue as to what happened with this application/breeder experience. and should stay out of it.
 

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I so agree with this post - especially this reminder

For those of us looking:
Remember that the breeder has a non-puppy life (really? how dare they? :p) and has the care of the dogs and current puppies to oversee. I know that when it is my future puppy in his/her care, I want the full focus on that litter and the future owners.
And it hard for the breeders to be pulled in so many directions - non-puppy life, current owners of past litters, future owners of current litter and potential future owners. Loss of sleep, the physical demands of caring for the litter and anxiety about choosing the right future owners - all stressors. And dealing with those of us who want attention or puppy - NOW!
I am always surprised at the unreasonable demands people seem to make of breeders in posts and in email - like it is the Customer Service department at Sears. Maybe its because it is by email or a post - sometimes we all take on a different personality in email and forums.

Breeding and caring for new puppies is so demanding. Breeders wear a lot of hats. I would have waited as long as it took to receive a puppy from our breeder. When we were waiting for our puppy, I had questions and had moments where I anxious, but the last thing I wanted to do was interrupt their day when they had a new litter of puppies they were caring for. A good breeder - believe me - will not let you leave without covering everything you need to know. Our first visit lasted 3 hours. Thats the care they take.
 

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Sue and Vern Rocco are as professional and caring breeders as they come. Email correspondance can be difficult as it does not relay tone.
Having people coming here and "taking sides", particularly those who are already anti-breeder is not serving anyone.

I hope that the OP is able to find a breeder that they are comfortable with, and who will assure that they get the right puppy for their family and the right family for the breeder's puppy.
 

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momto max: you do not know all the facts here so why would you even take sides?

Obviously there was miscommunication and since we aren't the two parties involved we have no idea of everything that transpired.

I am very sorry KCN lost their young golden to cancer, that is indeed tragic beyond words but none of us have any clue as to what happened with this application/breeder experience. and should stay out of it.

I love how you selectively opt to which posts you are going to wag your finger at. I've seen some terribly rude and hurtful posts slide off you like water and others for some reason you decide you are going to have your oh how could you? say.

I said I was being a nosy Nellie, and hey, we live in America - it's called free speech. It's a freedom I enjoy and use a lot! It's an open board and if I want to have an opinion, I am able to post that opinion.

I still think that the breeder should have been kinder and more sensitive and should always, as someone else here stated, remember that the people they are dealing with likely lost their loved one and for someone to lose a 3 year old must be even more painful than losing one at a ripe age because then at least you can say, he lived a long full life. That's something I know all to well about.

One other thing - those who think they are never wrong always are because no one is perfect. I think if you choose not to have someone take your puppy who just went through a terrible loss, you should be a lot more sensitive even on a board like this. You can't really get to know a person by a few emails. If their house was too small, did not have a fence, the person was too far away - then you say that in a nice considerate way that doesn't leave them feeling like they weren't "good" enough for you. By reading this post, that is what happened and by typing that you had a really bad feeling about them and that you are never wrong about it is only attacking these people again and that is WRONG. You didn't even take the time to meet them - did you have them send you pics of their home if you couldn't do a home visit? Then you can't be certain that you are right and you shouldn't treat people like that unless you really are is all I'm saying and I stand behind my post.
 

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Applying for a puppy from a well-respected breeder is kinda like sending in an application for a posted job opening...

Just becuase the opening was advertised, doesn't mean the job exists at the moment.......
Just becuase your application was received doesn't mean you get the interview...
Just because you get the interview doesn't mean you get the job....
Just because the interview goes well...doesn't meant that the next person interviewing doesn't do a better job and bump you out of consideration.

If your application gets rejected along the process... you move on to the next company or wait for the next job opening with the same company.

If you find that your application is repeatedly rejected - you proofread your application and review your interviewing skills...
 

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While I imagine it would be very painful to be turned down by a breeder in the midst of grief, I fully support breeders being selective about the homes they choose. Breeders know their dogs best and are much wiser about what the best fit for both dog and owner is.

When we first started searching for a second pup, long before I knew my butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to goldens, I just wanted to find the darkest pup I could. Little did I know that the litters I was looking at were very high energy, field-bred pups. There is NO WAY I could handle a pup like that right now. What I want to do with my dog doesn't match up with a field-bred dog even though I do find them to be extremely beautiful. I am so grateful to the breeders and friends who told me I was crazy and looking in the wrong place. It was disappointing at first to have to reevaluate what I was looking for, but in the long run it was definitely for the best.

I do not know Sue at all, but I do admire her dogs and her breeding program and would be incredibly proud and honored to own a dog from Delmarva someday. The nice structure and accomplishments of her dogs speak for themselves, and she has earned the right to be as selective as she wants.

I truly believe that finding the right dog is similar to finding the right life partner. There are plenty of good owners and good breeders out there, but that doesn't mean they will always match up. The puppy search can be incredibly difficult, so I sympathize with what the OP is going through, but I do think it's best that you find the perfect match. After all, the ideal breeder is someone you can and will stay in touch with for the entire life of your dog, and if either party has a bad gut feeling from the beginning, it is best to look elsewhere.
 

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Where The Bitches Rule
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I think if you choose not to have someone take your puppy who just went through a terrible loss, you should be a lot more sensitive even on a board like this. You can't really get to know a person by a few emails. If their house was too small, did not have a fence, the person was too far away - then you say that in a nice considerate way that doesn't leave them feeling like they weren't "good" enough for you. By reading this post, that is what happened and by typing that you had a really bad feeling about them and that you are never wrong about it is only attacking these people again and that is WRONG. You didn't even take the time to meet them - did you have them send you pics of their home if you couldn't do a home visit? Then you can't be certain that you are right and you shouldn't treat people like that unless you really are is all I'm saying and I stand behind my post.
Unless you have ever been in the "breeder" seat you really can not judge. I know there were folks I turned down just because "it did not feel right". And most of these never got to the interview stage. Was I right about every single one of these people. You bet I was. You know why? Because I never have had to say "I knew this was not going to work, why did I not go with my gut?" Could any of them actually been a good home? Of course but it was not a chance I was willing to take with one of MY puppies. And as cruel as it may sound, as a breeder I never let the person's story ever be more important then one of my pups.
As I stated earlier the relationship between a breeder and puppy family is one of the three most important parts of breeding/buying a pup. So if it does not "feel right" to either party it is always best not to pursue it any further. JMHO
 

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Momto max, Of course I am selective where I respond: as you stated it's free speech.

And I stand by the fact that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about when it comes to the interaction between this breeder and applicant and why they were turned down.

As far as their grieving: I acknowledged it is horrendous their sweet golden died.
But as I know from my own experience: if you are grieving and unable to deal with a breeder/ or rejection appropriately, it was probably too soon to be looking for a breeder/pup.

A breeder cannot make their decision about their pup's placement on the fact the applicant may be grieving. Most long time golden owners here have lost a golden and know the grief.
 

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Applying for a puppy from a well-respected breeder is kinda like sending in an application for a posted job opening...

Just becuase the opening was advertised, doesn't mean the job exists at the moment.......
Just becuase your application was received doesn't mean you get the interview...
Just because you get the interview doesn't mean you get the job....
Just because the interview goes well...doesn't meant that the next person interviewing doesn't do a better job and bump you out of consideration.

If your application gets rejected along the process... you move on to the next company or wait for the next job opening with the same company.

If you find that your application is repeatedly rejected - you proofread your application and review your interviewing skills...
I think that this sums things up perfectly.

There are plenty of breeders out there, keep looking. I think it's important for breeders to be incredibly selective, and for buyers to just as selective. Contact your local GR Club for referrals. I'm sure that you can find a puppy closer to home. Not everyone is a match, and that's okay.
 

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IKE- Canine Blood Donor
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Momto max, Of course I am selective where I respond: as you stated it's free speech.

And I stand by the fact that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about when it comes to the interaction between this breeder and applicant and why they were turned down.

As far as their grieving: I acknowledged it is horrendous their sweet golden died.
But as I know from my own experience: if you are grieving and unable to deal with a breeder/ or rejection appropriately, it was probably too soon to be looking for a breeder/pup.

A breeder cannot make their decision about their pup's placement on the fact the applicant may be grieving. Most long time golden owners here have lost a golden and know the grief.
Deb....consider the source. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

As for experience with Breeders, I had a very bad experience and a very good one. Sam had recently passed and I was having good days and bad days. I started researching Breeders and making phone calls... I obviously called my 'bad experience' Breeder on a bad day. My fault, not hers.

To the OP...I hope you find your new puppy very soon and are happy with the Breeder and the experience. It'll happen and you'll be grateful that your chain of events led you to your new best friend.
 
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