A place not to get a puppy

8139 Views 47 Replies 22 Participants Last post by Prism Goldens, Feb 12, 2018

Pat

Discussion Starter · Nov 1, 2009

WARNING ! We got a puppy from a place called Gap View Ranch in Broadway Virginia. She is a great dog and we love her very much except for the fact she has hip problems already. They offered us a half refund but only if we get a special x-ray called a Pen Hip. I can't even locate someone to do it. They WILL NOT pay for the x-ray and my own vet isn't calling for an x-ray. She just put the dog on Glucosamine pills and we are monitoring. Our dog cleary doesn't walk properly has trouble getting into cars and gets up very slow once she has been laying down and she is only 1 and a half years old. She might as well be 11. I have sent videos clearly depicting all of these problems but he is refusing to give us help unless we get the special x-ray and I'm not even sure he will produce any cash that would help us to buy the expensive pills that the dog is going to have to be on the rest of her life. He is a bad breeder bad businessman and NOBODY should get a dog from his farm. In my opinion it's a puppy mill since our dog was born in May and the mother of our dog had another litter in December. Beware of GAP VIEW RANCH in Broadway Virginia

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AquaClaraCanines

· #2 · Nov 1, 2009

I'm so sorry about your poor sweet girl. Someone here may be able to help you find a place to do the test if you do want to pursue it. Her case sounds bad if she has trouble walking at such an age. Perhaps she is a candidate for surgery?

Anyway, welcome to the forum. On a lighter note, we'd love to see pics of your sweet girl, and we have lots of support to give!

paula bedard

· #3 · Nov 1, 2009

Welcome...though I'm sorry that it's under these circumstances. I think it might be to your benefit to find a place to get the PenHip xrays that the Breeder insists upon. Hopefully, your girl is a candidate for surgery and the Breeder, with PennHip Xray in hand as proof, will help with the cost of surgery...maybe refund your pups purchase price...Again, I'm sorry you're going through this.

Curious though, is there language in your Breeder contract that might help you?

Pointgold

· #4 · Nov 1, 2009

Pat said:
WARNING ! We got a puppy from a place called Gap View Ranch in Broadway Virginia. She is a great dog and we love her very much except for the fact she has hip problems already. They offered us a half refund but only if we get a special x-ray called a Pen Hip. I can't even locate someone to do it. They WILL NOT pay for the x-ray and my own vet isn't calling for an x-ray. She just put the dog on Glucosamine pills and we are monitoring. Our dog cleary doesn't walk properly has trouble getting into cars and gets up very slow once she has been laying down and she is only 1 and a half years old. She might as well be 11. I have sent videos clearly depicting all of these problems but he is refusing to give us help unless we get the special x-ray and I'm not even sure he will produce any cash that would help us to buy the expensive pills that the dog is going to have to be on the rest of her life. He is a bad breeder bad businessman and NOBODY should get a dog from his farm. In my opinion it's a puppy mill since our dog was born in May and the mother of our dog had another litter in December. Beware of GAP VIEW RANCH in Broadway Virginia

There is no sound reason that a "special x-ray" (PennHip) would be needed to diagnose hip dysplasia. I would, however, recommend that she have a traditional view done to be able to definitively diagnose her propblem - it certainly could be dysplasia, it could also be an ACL problem, or a subluxating patella. Was there any sort of health warranty provided when you purchased the puppy?

paula bedard

· #5 · Nov 1, 2009

I found mention of this Breeder here at the forum and found members who have Gap View Golden's and are very happy with them. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=49459&page=7

Florabora22

· #6 · Nov 1, 2009

From personal experience (my pup is 11 months old an has already had one expensive surgery on her knee), unless it is stated explicitly in the contract that they are going to be willing to help you out with health problems, you can't really expect the breeder to do so. You're lucky that they at least offered to help out!! After I told Flora's breeder that she had 2 bad knees and possible hip dysplasia at 11 months, the breeder just said, "Oh, I'm sorry!" but since it is stated in the contract that they aren't responsible after 3 days, I couldn't reasonably expect them to give me money. I will never recommend Flora's breeder to anyone again, but I won't bash them either.

As Pointgold said, you should really try to pin down what the problem is. It could very well be a knee problem and not a problem with her hips.

I'm sorry your dog is having issues already. I know how frustrating and mentally taxing it is. I hope your pup begins to feel better.

Loisiana

· #7 · Nov 1, 2009

Very sorry to hear that your dog is not doing well, but in all honesty nothing sounds totally out of line about the breeder. Penn Hip certainly isn't the only way to diagnose, so see if there is something in your contract that states it must be Penn Hip. I would contact the breeder and see if she can help you find somewhere to do the Penn Hip if that is what she wants done.

My bigger concern would be why the vet doesn't want to do an x-ray if there is obvious problems with your dog.

Pointgold

· #8 · Nov 1, 2009

This is posted online by Gap View:

As stated in our puppy contract, if your veterinarian finds a genetic disorder present, we will provide a full refund with proper documentation from your vet. Please keep in mind that minor heart murmurs are common in young puppies. They can come and go as the heart grows, then disappear with maturity. If your vet finds a heart murmur, please call

Dave ASAP to discuss the implications.

PC Mom

· #9 · Nov 1, 2009

I'm so sorry to hear about your pup!!! I too have a sick dog (cancer) from Gap View, but he's 8. I'm not an expert so I'll let the others talk to whether or not that is appropriate, but I have to ask, who is the mom of your pup? I'm considering getting my 3rd dog from there and if you have issues with one of the moms, I'd like to know so I don't get a puppy from her.

AmbikaGR

· #10 · Nov 1, 2009

PC Mom said:
I'm so sorry to hear about your pup!!! I too have a sick dog (cancer) from Gap View, but he's 8. I'm not an expert so I'll let the others talk to whether or not that is appropriate, but I have to ask, who is the mom of your pup? I'm considering getting my 3rd dog from there and if you have issues with one of the moms, I'd like to know so I don't get a puppy from her.

I am confused why you would go back there again for another dog? You have stated in your first post on the forum that the other dog from there has allergy issues. So one has cancer at 8 , I am am so sorry to hear about this and not expressing my feelings on that earlier. And now another person has a 1 1/2 year old who despite what the breeder posts on the website is now demanding the owners do other tests before they honor their agreement. And you still are considering them for your next pup?
Please do yourself a favor and look elsewhere.

tippykayak

· #11 · Nov 1, 2009

Gap View has been discussed before as a less-than-ideal place to get a pup, precisely because of the potential for problems like you're discussing. Apparently, they don't have full clearances registered with OFA, which could mean that not all the dogs in your pup's line had proper hip checks.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=57638

As far as PennHIP, it's not the definitive diagnosis for hip dysplasia. It's a tool for breeders to use when they're thinking about hip formation. I would strongly recommend radiographs to look for dysplasia and the other conditions PG mentioned, just as part of treating the problem. Once you have those, the guarantee is pretty clear. Luxating patella and hip dysplasia are both clearly genetic conditions covered by the contract language. The breeder is probably within his rights to ask for a radiograph, but asking for a particular hip rating is more a way of preventing you from accessing the guarantee than it is a necessary step to prove the problem.

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tippykayak

· #12 · Nov 1, 2009

Did anybody notice that a lot of the positive comments about this kennel are posted by people who joined and made only handful of posts, and only about this kennel?

AmbikaGR

· #13 · Nov 1, 2009

tippykayak said:
Did anybody notice that a lot of the positive comments about this kennel are posted by people who joined and made only handful of posts, and only about this kennel?

Yes I have, but my gut tells me that PC Mom is for real. I would not expect one with "other motives" to post they got a dog from a place and now has cancer as an endoresement.

Noey

· #14 · Nov 1, 2009 (Edited)

tippykayak said:
Did anybody notice that a lot of the positive comments about this kennel are posted by people who joined and made only handful of posts, and only about this kennel?

Well I beg to differ. Not only do I have Gap Views but I have contact with others from litters and nothing but happy owners. So I think it's how you choose to look at it.

It's interesting to me that Gap View posts sorta appear first as long neg. posts and these folks vanish after the initial talking points?

I think PC is prob. truthful as well. But I don't think any breeder can 100% confirm your golden will never have cancer. We had a GSD from a great breeder and when he was 9 when the cancer appeared.

I think if your pup is as bad as you say and your talking with Dave and he requested x-rays...is that not fair? (just a regular x-ray as people are riht it might be a combo or something else) I've had nothing but positive from them. But again as stated in the past I'm not an expert my guys are pets not shows and many would think I'm horrible for selecting Gap.

I think it's good to research other places and look into them.

tippykayak

· #15 · Nov 1, 2009

Noey said:
Well I beg to differ. Not only do I have Gap Views but I have contact with others from litters and nothing but happy owners. So I think it's how you choose to look at it.

It's interesting to me that Gap View posts sorta appear first as long neg. posts and these folks vanish after the initial talking points?

I think PC is prob. truthful as well. But I don't think any breeder can 100% confirm your golden will never have cancer. We had a GSD from a great breeder and when he was 9 when the cancer appeared.

I think if your pup is as bad as you say and your talking with Dave and he requested x-rays...is that not fair? I've had nothing but positive from them. But again as stated in the past I'm not an expert my guys are pets not shows and many would think I'm horrible for selecting Gap.

I think it's good to research other places and look into them.

Hi Noey, obviously you're real, and I'm so, so glad you're happy with your dog. You're not horrible for picking GV, and there are probably many, many wonderful dogs coming out of there, but it seems clear that they're not doing everything they can to ensure those dogs have the best shot at long, healthy lives.

The biggest negative we've heard about GV (the missing toe) is from somebody who's posted quite a lot. There were some defenders that popped up and disappeared in some of the earlier threads, though.

I didn't say PC wasn't truthful, simply that I had noticed a trend.

It's not the cancer that bugs me. Osteosarcoma is common in the breed, and currently there's no way to select against it in a breeding program except to stop breeding dogs who are obviously producing lots of early cancer. What does bug me is the large operation, the incomplete certifications, and the story of a dog who was sold with a missing toe and apparently nobody noticed it. Jax has two white toes; they're structurally sound, and his movement is great, but the fur is white. My breeder not only noticed, but she mentioned it to me specifically as a conformation fault. I'm still shocked that a breeder could entirely miss a missing body part in a puppy.

The issue isn't that Dave asked for x-rays, which is probably part of any HD refund, but that he seemed to be stipulating that a refund wouldn't be given without PennHIP specifically, which is odd.

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Noey

· #16 · Nov 1, 2009

tippykayak said:
Hi Noey, obviously you're real, and I'm so, so glad you're happy with your dog. You're not horrible for picking GV, and there are probably many, many wonderful dogs coming out of there, but it seems clear that they're not doing everything they can to ensure those dogs have the best shot at long, healthy lives.

The biggest negative we've heard about GV (the missing toe) is from somebody who's posted quite a lot. There were some defenders that popped up and disappeared in some of the earlier threads, though.

I didn't say PC wasn't truthful, simply that I had noticed a trend.

It's not the cancer that bugs me. Osteosarcoma is common in the breed, and currently there's no way to select against it in a breeding program except to stop breeding dogs who are obviously producing lots of early cancer. What does bug me is the large operation, the incomplete certifications, and the story of a dog who was sold with a missing toe and apparently nobody noticed it. Jax has two white toes; they're structurally sound, and his movement is great, but the fur is white. My breeder not only noticed, but she mentioned it to me specifically as a conformation fault. I'm still shocked that a breeder could entirely miss a missing body part in a puppy.

The issue isn't that Dave asked for x-rays, which is probably part of any HD refund, but that he seemed to be stipulating that a refund wouldn't be given without PennHIP specifically, which is odd.

I'd be interested in knowing if Dave was around when she picked up the missing toe pup. He was not around for my guy but we knew them by this point and did not have to wait for him.. So that might be something?

But I agree, missing a toe (which sounds funny but its sad) is a hard thing to miss. Each time we went to check on our little guy we checked him out...full body flip and search. When my husband got him - same thing, and when I first got to see him same thing.

I think if you provided them with an x-ray and your vet report he would probably take that. And my understanding the other is to grade his not to diagnose. Meaning a regular x-ray can diagnose.

It's sad about any pup having problems - I would think you would be hearing it on the web if he was producing pups with lots of issues.

Do breeders you like ever produce a bad pup?

AmbikaGR

· #17 · Nov 1, 2009

Well I am clearly have a problem with reading today. I did not notice the actual wording in the original post in this thread. I thought it said they had done an x-ray to confirm the dysplasia but I now realize it does not. I agrree that the breeder has a right to ask for a verifiable diagnosis. Not sure I would put a dog with the possiblity of a bad hip(s) thru a PennHip exam, but OFA xrays are appropiate.

And as always I DO understand that cancer is a problem throughout Goldens and there is at this time no data to support it's inheritability in pedigrees. Just look at my Kizmet below. However if a breeder is not doing the things we know will provide the breed a better chance of a long and healthy life then I doubt there would be much concern for other health issues. No proof of this of course, but my opinion none the less.

Pointgold

· #18 · Nov 1, 2009

I'm a little stymied by the post about someone checking clearances when Dave wasn't around (that's just weird to me that someone would be going through ANYon'es documents when they weren't there) and finding "OFA Excellents that were not on the OFA database." Smells like real bad fish to me, sorry.
And no where on his website did I see anything about PennHip. He uses OFA (spottily) as far as I can see. And the when he states, again in writing, that a full refund will be made for anything proven genetic (and HD is) then why is he hedging? If it is because there is no radiograph, get one. But get a diagnostic view, and it does NOT mean PennHip - in fact I would NOT do a PennHip because there is already a problem - the pressure applied during a PennHip radiograph could cause further damage.

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Noey

· #19 · Nov 1, 2009

Pointgold said:
I'm a little stymied by the post about someone checking clearances when Dave wasn't around (that's just weird to me that someone would be going through ANYon'es documents when they weren't there) and finding "OFA Excellents that were not on the OFA database." Smells like real bad fish to me, sorry.
And no where on his website did I see anything about PennHip. He uses OFA (spottily) as far as I can see. And the when he states, again in writing, that a full refund will be made for anything proven genetic (and HD is) then why is he hedging? If it is because there is no radiograph, get one. But get a diagnostic view, and it does NOT mean PennHip - in fact I would NOT do a PennHip because there is already a problem - the pressure applied during a PennHip radiograph could cause further damage.

I believe Noah has hips...I have to double check his paper work. And his papers were posted on the sites.

I agree with getting him x-rays. It it normal for a breeder just to take a pup back without x-rays and just a vets verbal? (I'm just asking)

AmbikaGR

· #20 · Nov 1, 2009

Noey said:
It it normal for a breeder just to take a pup back without x-rays and just a vets verbal? (I'm just asking)

I do not feel it is normal, or right, for a breeder ever to take a dog back, unless it is truly what the dpg's owner wants. The right thing for a breeder to do would be to refund the price of the dog with a confirmed diagnosis not just on a vet's verbal diagnosis.

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