Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello all. i have a 14 week old golden retriever that we bought when she was around 8 weeks from an independent breeder. the mother and father were very friendly and it was a nice environment.

she has been crate trained and this has definitely helped with potty issues. however, when she does have an accident in the house, she knows she's about to be crated and reacts accordingly. at first, she growled and groaned -- now, i hate to say it, but she acts viciously. wailing her head around, growling, snarling, biting, snapping. it's scary.

when we find she has had an accident, we stick her nose close to the spot, say "no, go potty outside" etc, and place her in the crate all while she's throwing a tantrum and attempting to bite.

it's scary seeing such a small puppy react so viciously. we love her and she's an angel otherwise. just looking for some advice.



thanks.
 

·
Old Gold is the Best Gold
Joined
·
18,122 Posts
Hi!

Welcome. She is beautiful!

First off- stop with the crating after an accident! The crate should NEVER EVER be used for punishment!!! It should be a happy, secure place.

Next, do not ever shove a puppy's nose in an accident. I know this was the old fashioned way many of our parents used, but it's been proven to be ineffective and to cause problems just like those you mention. The best response is to say, "no no!" IF YOU SEE HER IN THE ACT and take her outside.

When she goes potty outside PRAISE and treat.

If you don't catch her in the act, then don't punish her at all. Never ever let her out of your sight until she is fully trained. This way, accidents won't happen. Set her up for success. If you see her sniffing, circling, etc, take her out. The moment she wakes from a nap, take her out. If you cannot watch her, calmly take her to her crate and reward her with a safe toy (like a kong with peanutbutter inside) and tell her she's a good girl.

Glad to have you! :)
 

·
Steelers and Pens Fanatic
Joined
·
744 Posts
First I would say when she has an accident, tell her "no" and immediately take her out and tell her "go potty", stay a little and if she goes again lots of praise,if not be VIGALENT on catching her before she goes again and when you go out always say "go potty" or something similar. You have to be careful not to use the crate for punishment or you will get bad results from using it.

Jenna- we were typing at the same time--you beat me! LOL
 

·
Tracer, Rumor & Cady
Joined
·
10,683 Posts
She sees you as the aggressor and is reacting accordingly.
In my opinion...you are using the crate as punishment for an housebreaking issue which may beyond her physical ability to control.

Again, in my opinion, your choice of how to handle a typical, natural housebreaking issue is not enhancing the relationship you are trying to build with your dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thank you all for your responses. you're right about not crating her as a punishment -- i'm kicking myself for not realizing that.

we take her out, especially after naps, and she runs around barking when she needs to go #2 (if she's feeling generous, i guess) but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee. :p

i will definitely start taking her out directly after i catch her from now on. hopefully she'll make the connection.

thanks again!
 

·
Murphy's mom
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Hi!

Welcome. She is beautiful!

First off- stop with the crating after an accident! The crate should NEVER EVER be used for punishment!!! It should be a happy, secure place.

Next, do not ever shove a puppy's nose in an accident. I know this was the old fashioned way many of our parents used, but it's been proven to be ineffective and to cause problems just like those you mention. The best response is to say, "no no!" IF YOU SEE HER IN THE ACT and take her outside.

When she goes potty outside PRAISE and treat.

If you don't catch her in the act, then don't punish her at all. Never ever let her out of your sight until she is fully trained. This way, accidents won't happen. Set her up for success. If you see her sniffing, circling, etc, take her out. The moment she wakes from a nap, take her out. If you cannot watch her, calmly take her to her crate and reward her with a safe toy (like a kong with peanutbutter inside) and tell her she's a good girl.

Glad to have you! :)
Great advice Jenna!! I would only tell the OP, in addition, to do a search on this forum on housebreaking for more ideas.
 

·
Old Gold is the Best Gold
Joined
·
18,122 Posts
Don't beat yourself up! You are learning and asking for help. That's awesome!

Dogs don't do anything out of spite, though, even though I KNOW it looks that way sometimes.

If she is peeing frequent, small amounts suspect a urinary tract infection. This is VERY common in female puppies. If that's the case, she can't help it.
 

·
est.1989
Joined
·
4,374 Posts
but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee. :p
puppies do not go out of spite, it is because of very limited bladder control, Its up to you to be vigilant in getting her to where you want her to eliminate. If she has an accident indoors that you haven't caught her in the act of doing, clean it up and carry on...please remember your puppy is a baby.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,595 Posts
thank you all for your responses. you're right about not crating her as a punishment -- i'm kicking myself for not realizing that.

we take her out, especially after naps, and she runs around barking when she needs to go #2 (if she's feeling generous, i guess) but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee. :p

i will definitely start taking her out directly after i catch her from now on. hopefully she'll make the connection.

thanks again!
Welcome to the board! There are lots, and lots of thread with good advice on potty training, well worth the effort to look them up.

She's not doing anything out of spite, dogs are not capable of that. And she probably feels threatened when you grab her, hence the snapping and snarling. Make coming to you and being picked up by a happy thing, give treats and toys when you need to pick her up so the learns to associate good things with it.

She is a tiny baby whose bladder is not physically mature or large enough to hold her pee, she will have the sudden need to potty until she is several months older. She does not have full control of it yet.

Make potty training a happy process, take her outside and use the same cue word every single time, then when she does go have a party, tell her good potty, good potty in a happy, up beat voice and give hear a treat. You want her to think going potty outside in the right place is the best trick she's ever done.

There should never be any punishment for accidents, it is totally counter productive. Think of it this way, would you punish a human baby for wetting their diaper? Your puppy is the equivalent of a human baby in a diaper, only she is already having to learn to potty in the right toilet area already.

Turn it all around and make every interaction positive and I'm sure in a short time you will see great progress.

She is a beautiful puppy.
 

·
Debbie
Joined
·
644 Posts
You have gotten good advice. When Riley was potty training we took her out every 20 minutes and immedialtely after a nap. We praised her heavily (I'm sure the neighbors thought we were nuts) and gave her a treat. Also, you did not say how she feels about the crate otherwise, but if you are having problems with that now try feeding her in the crate (with the door open) and offering her high value treats like a cream cheese filled kong or a marrow bone when you put her in. Soon she will no longer associate the crate with punishment for having an accident in the house. Oh, and she sure is a cutie!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,438 Posts
Our vet once showed me an xray of a puppy's bladder- it is the size of a walnut at first!

From the pup's viewpoint, it is only natural to go when you have to go, so you're asking her to make a big leap in comprehnsion. It is hard to learn and be scared at the same time. That is why I really agree with AquaClaraCanines advice to you. Focus on praising when she does the right thing, and teach her a potty phrase like "hurry up" or "get busy". Make sure to clean up any accidents with Nature's Miracle or another enzyme formula that takes away all the smells which signal a potty place.
 

·
Inactive
Joined
·
11,326 Posts
I'll second lots of other posts by agreeing that this definitely isn't an aggressive dog, but rather a defensive one. She doesn't feel safe, and she's defending herself from what seems like aggression from you. You have to stop manhandling her and making confrontations out of her obedience. I would definitely switch to positive-only training (aside from making a loud, startling noise if you catch her during an accident).

You need to build trust with this dog. Show her all good things come from you and that you don't become a noisy, giant, grabby, threat at random (seems random to her) times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thank you all for the great advice! i've owned a lab years ago and i guess i had forgotten that bladder control is still in development.

we just got home from petsmart and the dog park. she's very timid around other dogs yet beats up my poor min-pin.

we bought her a kong and puppy filling for night time when she's crated. it really makes a lot of sense to make the crate feel like a home rather than a punishment so i guess we're gonna have to start working at it.

she does very well with the crate actually; normally whines maybe the first 5 minutes depending on how tired she is. the first few nights were rough, but she's only had one accident.

hopefully tonight will go better with treats and a new approach. :)
 

·
Loving goldens since '95
Joined
·
7,004 Posts
Lots of great advice given already. Reiterating what others have already said and worked for our dog...

1) Take her out often. If you just took her out 20 minutes before and she peed, get her back outside because it's probably already time to go again!

2) Pick a phrase to use as soon as she starts to squat, and use it everytime. Ours is "Go pee". Say "good girl" as soon as she starts peeing and wait for the FULL praise until after she's done (get out the pom-poms and dance around in excitement).

3) Goldens are very easy to train through positive reinforcement. Yelling at them for what they did bad will not teach them how to do something correctly. If they get all this attention, praise, treats and rewards for having GOOD behaviour, they will continually want to continue with that and will quickly forget about doing the bad ones that they don't get anything from.

4) Have patience and stay calm. Yelling at the dog is only going to make her act in self-defense, which is contributing to the aggression on her end.

5) Never associate the crate with punishment. To help get her to like it, feed her in there with the door open, only give her the best treats when she goes in, reward her with treats/praise when she goes in on her own, and understand that the crate is HER space. Never try to drag her out of it, and never make her feel threatened while she is in there.

Hope this works for you and please keep us posted on your progress :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
aside from what has already been said, i also have a miniature pinscher. she's around 3 now and is extremely laid back and not really interested in puppy romping.

layla is extremely dominant. if lola, my min-pin, has a toy then she has to take it. she chases the min pin all throughout the house when lola is obviously not interested whatsoever. i'm not sure if i should leave them alone and allow them to work out their own issues, considering the puppy is not aggressive and just wanted to play. the min-pin has growled a few times at the puppy, which has made her back off a bit, but sometimes she doesn't.

it's also funny, because at the dog park, layla is a perfect little angel. timid as can be. tail between legs, wagging with excitement.

they have played together a few times, but being strong-armed isn't something lola enjoys.

if anyone has any suggestions, whether i should let them work things out on their own or not, i'd greatly appreciate it!

thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,628 Posts
Lots of puppies are total brats to older dogs. It's generally referred to as having a "puppy license", which means that the older dogs tolerate it to a point. Once the puppy hits about 14-16 weeks, that license is revoked and the adult dogs will generally start correcting the puppy more fiercely. Your min pin will probably start telling the puppy off pretty soon. If you feel like the puppy is picking on your min pin too hard, then you need to tell her "enough" and remove her from the area where your min pin is. Eventually, she will learn that "enough" means to leave the other dog alone. But in general, I would let your older dog tell the younger one off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,729 Posts
My pup is about 14 weeks old as well. She needs to go out ALOT, especially after I see she has had some water. There are ven times, she has to pee 15 minutes of being out to pee. They are stil so young to contro t fr long, you just need to be alittlemore atient.Holding it WILL COME. I also have a 6 month old wh no longer has accidents in he house and rings the bell I placed on the front door when he wants to go out.

Also, I wanted o tl you o get som nATURES MIRACLE t use after you clean up th pee pee spot in the huse. It helps to get rid of the scent better than just detergent alone.

When you do per her in the crate put a treat in there for her to try to put a positive spin on the crate rather than a negative
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,729 Posts
I missed your last post....to this I would d:

Sincwe I have 2, although the oldest is only 6 month,I have that thing going on here ALL the time. They constatnly want each others toys and they sometimes make a game out of it, BUT they can sometimes get alittle fierce over it. I usually dont get involved unless it gets too heated, or unless one looks like he/she is being espeically annoying.
 

·
<---Bring on the grub!!!!
Joined
·
3,737 Posts
Hi and welcome to the forum :wavey:
when we find she has had an accident, we stick her nose close to the spot, say "no, go potty outside" etc, and place her in the crate all while she's throwing a tantrum and attempting to bite.

it's scary seeing such a small puppy react so viciously. we love her and she's an angel otherwise. just looking for some advice.

If you stop and think about it it must be pretty scary for her, also. Here is a good article on potty training a puppy:
http://www.clickertraining.com/housetraining

~~ Cathy ~~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,889 Posts
I don't have anything to add as you've had some excellent advice already, I just wanted to say "welcome!" and your pup is really cute:):)
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top