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Kate
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21,295 Posts
Megora, I know you're making a point about temperament in general and I totally agree that breeding testy temperaments is not ideal.
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Yes - exactly. Thanks for not getting mad at me for using your post as an example. Behavior like she exhibited is not the worst thing - especially since she likely never had any intention of making contact when she snapped, it was all reactive.

But my gut feeling really is we get into this breed because they should not have testy temperaments or react to very minor things like she did. If they do, well, fine. You know your dogs limits.

I just flipped when I saw a respected breeder basically say that standing their ground and some "grr" moments are not a big deal. :doh:
 

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Mommy to Tucker
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390 Posts
I absolutely would never trust any dog 100%. I think anyone who thinks their dog would never bite anyone... Is being naive. I mean that in a very respectful way... But all dogs have the capability to bite. You can't be 100% sure. Now you can trust them but you should always supervise a dog with children and people you don't know well- because it's not the dog you have to be concerned about... It's he humans and how they act and treat the dog. I would never let any dog be around my child unsupervised no matter how much I trusted the dog.
 

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Mom to Oatmeal too!
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503 Posts
Yes - exactly. Thanks for not getting mad at me for using your post as an example. Behavior like she exhibited is not the worst thing - especially since she likely never had any intention of making contact when she snapped, it was all reactive.

But my gut feeling really is we get into this breed because they should not have testy temperaments or react to very minor things like she did. If they do, well, fine. You know your dogs limits.
Lol well I would say that dealing with the pain of osteosarcoma, amputation, and learning to do everything on three legs would make any dog unhappy and easier to snap/growl. I think minor things in my opinion would be like stepping on a tail or a paw which I've done many times and she never snapped or growled. Just gave me a :uhoh:, like mom watch where you step please!
 

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I absolutely would never trust any dog 100%. I think anyone who thinks their dog would never bite anyone... Is being naive. I mean that in a very respectful way... But all dogs have the capability to bite. You can't be 100% sure. Now you can trust them but you should always supervise a dog with children and people you don't know well- because it's not the dog you have to be concerned about... It's he humans and how they act and treat the dog. I would never let any dog be around my child unsupervised no matter how much I trusted the dog.
I respectfully disagree. Yes a dog will never reach the point of reasoning. But I would never leave my dogs alone. I am only speaking as a person who is in constant proximity of it's dogs. I never leave my dogs outside unsupervised, I would never leave them with someone I and they do not know/trust. In my situation I DO trust my dogs 100%, why because I am 99.9% with them. I do not take vacations where my dogs cannot be with me, I do not think of ME time without my dogs. If I cannot go somewhere without my dogs I stay home or go to the cabin. If my DD cannot watch them when I am on a biz trip I simply do not go. My dogs come above money, fun time or whatever else someone is fancy about.
Edit to add: If someone does not feel comfortable around my dogs they either leave or my dogs are put behind the pet gates. If my dogs have to be put behind pet gates because of the humans, the same humans are not invited back until they grow up. Because I know my dogs would never harm them.
 
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I must add that I cannot stand it when parents let their children run up to dogs and pet them. I teach my kids to never do this. Ever. I don't let my son pet dogs we don't know. Seeing my daughter get attacked and bit changed me. It was the worst thing i have experienced with one of my children. I had nightmares for months and would sob at the drop of a hat. So no my kids don't pet unfamiliar dogs and not many that I do know. When I walk Thor it amazes me how parents let their kids run up to him and pet him. Glad for them that kids are his very favorite thing in the world. His favorite things are in this order : us, stuffies, children, adults and cats. I am training him to sit when approached to be pet so it's not a bad thing on my part for kids to come running. It's a training opportunity. But those parents don't know he loves kids. He is huge. One bite from a dog like him and it could be fatal. I really appreciate it when I encounter parents who stop their kids and ask if it's okay.


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I yell. I have absolutely no problem yelling "STOP!" at a kid who's running up to Max. Parents can get mad, I don't care. Max will lick them into oblivion because he adores kids, but not every dog would do the same. And if parents don't want to teach their kids that, I'm more than happy to do it. And don't tell me, "he's a GOLDEN! They all LOVE kids!" No, they DON'T!
 

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Esquire Golden Retrievers
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I was at a dog show today, and at one handler's setup there were a bunch of dogs in ex-pens, and there were parents actually encouraging their five or six small children to run up and put their hands inside to pet the dogs, like it was a petting zoo. Fortunately for these kids' fingers, they were all well-behaved Goldens. But jeesh, how stupid can you get?
 

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There are very few humans that I trust 100% and even fewer that I trust with the lives of my dogs. That's what it comes down to, IMHO. If the dog makes a mistake and bites someone, the dog may be euthanized. That's a terribly harsh consequence and one that I'm simply not willing to risk, no matter how well I know and trust my dogs.
 

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Kate
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Lol well I would say that dealing with the pain of osteosarcoma, amputation, and learning to do everything on three legs would make any dog unhappy and easier to snap/growl. I think minor things in my opinion would be like stepping on a tail or a paw which I've done many times and she never snapped or growled. Just gave me a :uhoh:, like mom watch where you step please!
I'm sorry.... in that case, I think she had every right to be as crabby as she wanted. I'm sure she was also on meds during that time and that will affect them.
 

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My golden Raleigh broke his leg in the woods behind the Yale Golf Course, and allowed three high school kids to carry him 1/2 mile to the car with no biting or snarling. I think there are some dog s who can be trusted as much as a person not to bite even under extreme provocation. I understand the idea of bite threshold, and every dog has one. However, I have had goldens whose bite thresholds are beyond some humans I know.
 

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I was at a dog show today, and at one handler's setup there were a bunch of dogs in ex-pens, and there were parents actually encouraging their five or six small children to run up and put their hands inside to pet the dogs, like it was a petting zoo. Fortunately for these kids' fingers, they were all well-behaved Goldens. But jeesh, how stupid can you get?
People are really dumb with kids, and I dont get it. We got invited to the Maine Mall for a day of Therapy Dogs and Therapy Horses( yup, right in the mall). While I was chatting with some people about Tally and letting them pet him, I saw a mom put a young baby right on Copley's back for a "pony ride" ( he was "off duty" in his x pen, and I was rotating dogs). Thankfully, Copley adores kids and he is a big strong solid dog, and he just wagged, but I was beside myself. They just stuck the baby on his back, and had never even met the dog before.
 

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I would say I'm about 97% sure that my dog would never bite anyone. We were at a very crowded park yesterday where there were tons of kids, some on bikes, scooters, just plain running. They were whizzing by us pretty close and pretty fast. It was chaotic, but Sadie didn't seem flustered at all. There were even a lot of other dogs there on leashes and she was perfectly behaved. But the thought is always in the back of my mind, and I watch her like a hawk when around other kids.
If it did happen, it would never be out of aggression, but out of fear or pain if they hurt her. I don't think I'd ever feel 100% sure.
 
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