[Roobear]

Hi everyone, we have a 1 year old old and my husband has been playing frisbee with him most mornings since he was 10.5 months old. I just clued in and asked him to stop.
They weren’t doing it every day and he didn’t always do many reps as our dog doesn’t “drop it” very well. He seems fine but I’m worried we did damage. We will be sure going forward to wait for jumpy jumps until he is 1.5 years.

Any thoughts?

 

[Tagrenine]

Is there any health testing in this dog's pedigree? Often with these crossbreeds, there is not any testing on the parents, so we don't have a baseline for hip and elbow health. If this dog is hardcore (stops hard, runs hard, jumps high, etc) then there is a risk of damage. I would consider getting the elbows and hips evaluated at 12 months at the earliest to get a baseline of where you're at.

 

[Roobear]

Mom GR and dad IS are both tested with good hips/elbows. The breeder guarantees it. Of course not if negligence is a factor.
I thought it had more to do with the growing that is still occurring during the first year and a half. He doesn’t seems super hardcore but I haven’t been out with my husband to say for sure. He isn’t injured in any way. But my husband didn’t realize he shouldn’t be doing that and it hasn’t been for hours on end.

 

[Tagrenine]

I'm glad to hear there has been some testing done! Both genetics and environment play a role in healthy joints. I think there is a lot of interplay between the two.

Anywho, yes, for now, I would try to get in within the next couple of months and see what those joints look like and then proceed with caution until the pup is a bit older.

 

[pawsnpaca]

Out of curiosity, does your puppy have his front dew claws? My first dog played a ton of fetch every day of her life from puppyhood on and started with arthritis at a young age (5 or 6) but most of her issues seemed to center on her front feet, and eventually her low back. She was, however, also the only dog to have had her front dew claws removed as a puppy, which some feel can destabilize the joints in the feet and ankles.

I wouldn't worry too much about it now (if for no other reason than if you've done damage, the damage is done). It wouldn't hurt to get her hips and elbows x-rayed at some point, if just to know if she had any structural issues to begin with. I'd suggest getting pet insurance if you don't already have it (a good idea regardless). Otherwise, being more judicious with her exercise going forward is definitely a good idea, as might giving her a joint supplement. All my dogs were active in things like agility, so I also splurge on periodic chiropractic and acupuncture for my dogs, just to make sure they stay in alignment.

 

[DblTrblGolden2]

Mom GR and dad IS are both tested with good hips/elbows. The breeder guarantees it. Of course not if negligence is a factor.
I thought it had more to do with the growing that is still occurring during the first year and a half.

Do you have the registered names of both parents? The breeder guaranteeing it means nothing as far as genetics. You need to verify clearances on both parents on OFA. If you post them we can help.

I’ve owned both breeds and love both dearly, but boy oh boy I’ll bet you’ve got your hands full. My last setter lived to be 16 and his antics are still the topic of many family laughs. (Now they are funny)

 

[Roobear]

Do you have the registered names of both parents? The breeder guaranteeing it means nothing as far as genetics. You need to verify clearances on both parents on OFA. If you post them we can help.

I’ve owned both breeds and love both dearly, but boy oh boy I’ll bet you’ve got your hands full. My last setter lived to be 16 and his antics are still the topic of many family laughs. (Now they are funny)

I’m not entirely sure, I will see if I can find and let you know. But ya, hands are full!! He’s amazing tho😊

 

[Roobear]

Out of curiosity, does your puppy have his front dew claws? My first dog played a ton of fetch every day of her life from puppyhood on and started with arthritis at a young age (5 or 6) but most of her issues seemed to center on her front feet, and eventually her low back. She was, however, also the only dog to have had her front dew claws removed as a puppy, which some feel can destabilize the joints in the feet and ankles.

I wouldn't worry too much about it now (if for no other reason than if you've done damage, the damage is done). It wouldn't hurt to get her hips and elbows x-rayed at some point, if just to know if she had any structural issues to begin with. I'd suggest getting pet insurance if you don't already have it (a good idea regardless). Otherwise, being more judicious with her exercise going forward is definitely a good idea, as might giving her a joint supplement. All my dogs were active in things like agility, so I also splurge on periodic chiropractic and acupuncture for my dogs, just to make sure they stay in alignment.

He does still have dew claws. He goes for neuter on 2 weeks and I’ve asked vet to X-ray hips. Maybe I should ask for elbows too!

I have been VERY careful with his exercise, much to the annoyance of my husband - he thinks I worry too much and he may be right, I know I do, but rather be safe than sorry. So really the o my time he may have been at risk was the short times he has been with my husband. He has followed my every instruction with the exercise, I just didn’t clue in to the frisbee. Had I, he would have stopped. He said he will stop now

 

[pawsnpaca]

You may want to rethink the neuter:

Spay-neuter considerations to maximize health

Numerous studies show that traditional spay/neuter surgeries can increase the risk of orthopedic problems, cancer, behavior issues and other conditions.

ivcjournal.com

EARLY SPAY-NEUTER IN THE CANINE ATHLETE | TheDogPlace.org

Chris Zink, DVM, PHd, on surgical sterilization without hormone replacement as is NOT done in humans, early spay-neuter effects on canine development....

www.thedogplace.org

Effects of Neutering

I affectionately call Nemo my "monster Sheltie" since he measures 19.5 inches at the shoulder, three and a half inches over the breed standard. Due to his big size, he often gets mistaken for a small Collie. On the recommendation of my veterinarian, I had Nemo neutered at 16 weeks old, which I...

thebark.com

Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence

Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...

www.frontiersin.org

Many of us have chosen to leave our male dogs intact unless there was a compelling health or behavioral reason to do so.

You may also find this video of interest in terms of determining when enough exercise becomes too much exercise: APPROPRIATE EXERCISE

 

[DblTrblGolden2]

Definitely rethink the neuter. My setter that lived to be 16 was not neutered. I currently have 3 intact male goldens. Setters mature slower then goldens in my experience. In all honesty with the x-rays, what's done is done, if exercise has caused damage you can't change it. I doubt you have unless you've seen a limp or soreness. I don't see the point in doing x-rays on a healthy one year old unless you believe you have an issue. I know you love him, and I can imagine he's a very special boy, but he's a mixed breed. You aren't going to obtain clearances on him to meet a COE and it doesn't sound like your going to breed him. I hope you aren't if I'm being honest.

If you are really concerned about joint health and he has no symptoms your biggest indicator at age one will be the results of his parents on OFA. If both were pure bred, and the breeder was really doing everything, they should be easily verifiable. If the breeder didn't submit to OFA, most mixed breeders don't, you have what you have. You could do joint supplements and watch exercise levels. I have a Golden that just turned one. He is in hunt training so lots of swimming and running. My one rule for him is no jumping down. He's not allowed to jump out of my Tahoe, he can't jump off a bed, etc. I don't want the impact on his elbows at this age. He is still growing.

I especially wouldn't agree to sedation for x-rays without a reason. This is just my opinion. I also prefer to have young dogs x-rays looked at by a vet that I know has looked at 1000's or by an ortho specialist. Placement during x-rays can make a big difference.

 

[Roobear]

You may want to rethink the neuter:

Spay-neuter considerations to maximize health

Numerous studies show that traditional spay/neuter surgeries can increase the risk of orthopedic problems, cancer, behavior issues and other conditions.

ivcjournal.com

EARLY SPAY-NEUTER IN THE CANINE ATHLETE | TheDogPlace.org

Chris Zink, DVM, PHd, on surgical sterilization without hormone replacement as is NOT done in humans, early spay-neuter effects on canine development....

www.thedogplace.org

Effects of Neutering

I affectionately call Nemo my "monster Sheltie" since he measures 19.5 inches at the shoulder, three and a half inches over the breed standard. Due to his big size, he often gets mistaken for a small Collie. On the recommendation of my veterinarian, I had Nemo neutered at 16 weeks old, which I...

thebark.com

Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence

Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...

www.frontiersin.org

Many of us have chosen to leave our male dogs intact unless there was a compelling health or behavioral reason to do so.

You may also find this video of interest in terms of determining when enough exercise becomes too much exercise: APPROPRIATE EXERCISE

Yes, I have chosen to wait until he was a year because of the orthopedic research out there. I would like to leave him intact but it seems to instigate other intact dogs to attack him. He is not aggressive but he has been attacked by intact males on more than one occasion. Honestly, I have struggled with this.