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New to the forum and first time breeder. :)

6K views 81 replies 29 participants last post by  Rob's GRs 
#1 · (Edited)
Good afternoon everyone. My name is Jorge and I would like to introduce myself, my wife Michele and our two Goldens: Athena and Leo. Both are full bred and just yesterday they had their first litter. Athena gave birth to twelve pups. Six girls and six boys. All twelve are healthy and very much active. Of course it's only been a day since they were born. Leo is a red golden while Athena is a creme. The litter seems to have a mixture of the two, but I am sure we will know more as they begin to grow.

I do have a question and maybe you nice folks can help. My Wife and I are new to this and would very much like to make sure that we have everything in order. One thing is, how do we obtain the AKC papers of the pups and is it possible to get copies of both Leo and Athenas paperwork? Second, when would be a good time to get the pups vaccinated? I'm sure I will have some more questions, but at the moment I am quite overwhelmed in a good way. :)

All your help will of course be most appreciated.

Thank you, Jorge and Michele. :)
 
#2 ·
Leo is gorgeous, where is he from?
 
#5 ·
Thank you. He is quite handsome. We purchased Leo approximately four years ago from one of my Wifes co workers. Her co worker bred quite a few litters, but I am afraid I am not sure where his blood line came from. We have his documentation somewhere. We did some remolding and boxed quite a bit up. Reason I was curious if we can obtain copies. Then I will know for sure. Sorry about that.

This link should help you. Registering a Litter Your dogs are very cute and I hope the pups continue to do well.
Thank for the link. I appreciate it and thank you for the compliment. :)
 
#8 ·
Just a heads up, you may get some pretty direct, and unhappy responses, but please hang in here, there is a wealth of information available from the board members here that you will benefit from if you are patient with the responses that tell you, you've really missed some very important steps in the breeding process.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I understand and I appreciate it. By no means do we consider ourselves "professional" breeders. We would like to start and get as much information we can in order to insure a healthy parents and litter.

BTW: If you would be so kind, What steps are you referring to? Thank you. :)
 
#12 ·
I certainly hope that people step in and offer help on what to do next, for the sake of those 12 puppies. I know there is a lot that breeders must do in those first 7 weeks to ensure sound and healthy puppies.

This is heartbreaking to me because your goldens are beautiful but I do think you should have gotten the paperwork together, had both parents checked out thoroughly (see information on the Golden Retriever Club of America about clearances), and had at least a few thoroughly screened homes lined up before arranging the breeding.

Please, please don't breed these dogs again if you haven't done all of the above.
 
#13 ·
I would try to find those papers and see what the lines are behind them. Did you have a purpose for breeding your two together? How much are you charging for these cuties?
 
#14 ·
Most breeders start deworming at 2 weeks of age. They start their first vaccinations around 7 weeks of age. Opinions differ here. Make sure they have a good quality check up from the vet before leaving for their forever homes.
 
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#18 ·
If you have not already, you need to take mom and puppies to the vet for an initial exam. Ask the vet for a schedule of worming and vaccinations.

Since there are 12 puppies, you will need to be monitoring and making sure they are all getting to nurse sufficiently, you may want to rotate groups of puppies if mommy is not doing it herself.
 
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#19 ·
ok I am just going to add one thing...

folks who are telling you to take puppies to the vet for their initial exam obviously aren't breeders... none of us and I mean none of us take puppies to the vet for an initial exam... the last place in the world you want a litter of neonates is at the vets office... unless there is a problem those puppies do not go to the vet for an initial exam.

I have seen that mentioned time and time again and I am honestly not sure where that comes from but ask any breeder and the last place we want our pups is at a vets office...

as far as worming and vaccinations talk to your vet or your mentor....

but no to the initial vet appt. that shouldnt happen until they get their first set of shots... and even then you can give those shots yourself if you are so inclined... and if you go to the vet make it the first appt. of the day... or better yet have the vet come to you

my only last word will be
that this should have been researched and figured out before the pups were born or better yet before you decided to put out a plank and call yourself a breeder
 
#20 ·
ok I am just going to add one thing...

folks who are telling you to take puppies to the vet for their initial exam obviously aren't breeders... none of us and I mean none of us take puppies to the vet for an initial exam... the last place in the world you want a litter of neonates is at the vets office... unless there is a problem those puppies do not go to the vet for an initial exam.

I have seen that mentioned time and time again and I am honestly not sure where that comes from but ask any breeder and the last place we want our pups is at a vets office...

as far as worming and vaccinations talk to your vet or your mentor....

but no to the initial vet appt. that shouldnt happen until they get their first set of shots... and even then you can give those shots yourself if you are so inclined... and if you go to the vet make it the first appt. of the day... or better yet have the vet come to you

my only last word will be
that this should have been researched and figured out before the pups were born or better yet before you decided to put out a plank and call yourself a breeder
I agree with you for people like you, and other experienced breeders, who know what they are doing and can identify issues with puppies without the aid of a vet. For this person, the vet needs to look at the puppies because he is not experienced and has no idea what he's doing or what to look for to identify problems in the puppies, ie. cleft palatte, umbilical hernia, etc. The dam needs to be checked out by a vet to ensure there is no retained placenta, retained puppy, or uterine infection, mastitis, etc., because again this individual does not know what to look for.
 
#21 ·
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your babies. Looking forward to watch them growing.
 
#24 ·
You: "What does one call it then when it's their first time and first litter?"

Well, in your case, I would call it unfortunate, but I guess at least you are trying to back-track and figure things out as quickly as you can.

Please, before you breed another litter (or keep intact girls and boys away from each other), please join a Golden Retriever Club, or call someone from your area that belongs and breeds, to find a mentor. Spend a year or two, or more studying the breed and what it takes. Breeding two dogs just because they are cute, or nice, or sweet isn't enough. There are plenty of these dogs from litters like this that are now in shelters, or worse....being a well-known reputable breeder is absolutely no guarantee the pups don't end up in shelters, or with terrible health issues, but it certainly is less likely.

Good luck becoming a breeder, if that is what you want to do. This forum has many, many people that can help you on your journey, along with having your local mentor.
 
#34 ·
You: "What does one call it then when it's their first time and first litter?"

Well, in your case, I would call it unfortunate, but I guess at least you are trying to back-track and figure things out as quickly as you can.

Please, before you breed another litter (or keep intact girls and boys away from each other), please join a Golden Retriever Club, or call someone from your area that belongs and breeds, to find a mentor. Spend a year or two, or more studying the breed and what it takes. Breeding two dogs just because they are cute, or nice, or sweet isn't enough. There are plenty of these dogs from litters like this that are now in shelters, or worse....being a well-known reputable breeder is absolutely no guarantee the pups don't end up in shelters, or with terrible health issues, but it certainly is less likely.

Good luck becoming a breeder, if that is what you want to do. This forum has many, many people that can help you on your journey, along with having your local mentor.
Well, I wouldn't quite call it "unfortunate". I know we are more than capable of handling the situation. We are just looking for some proactive guidance and see what "Experienced" breeders are experiencing.

I agree, lots of pets do end up in shelters and in poor homes. We are committed to ensure this will not happen in our case. But as you said" being a well-known reputable breeder is absolutely no guarantee the pups don't end up in shelters, or with terrible health issues, but it certainly is less likely."

Thank you for your input and please rest assured that they are in good hands. :)
 
#26 ·
I just would like to make some things clear. I understand this can be a touchy subject and some may completely disagree with the outcome. We had no intentions of breeding until both Mom, Dad and we were ready. Accidents do happen, so what can I say? We are taking responsibility for it in order to insure that all are healthy and sound. We love our dogs and we will do what ever it takes to insure they are safe and healthy. I simply posted the thread to ask for some guidance. Isn't that what this forum is all about? Or is this forum for "professional" breeders only? Please don't take me the wrong way, I am not in the least bit offended by certain post. Just looking for some constructive answers and guidance. If you want to help, Great! If not, that's ok to. :)

I understand that there will be different opinions as to what to do. That has already been obvious from the different post. Obviously I by no means am a professional breeder so I ask that those that do post think back on their first experience and share their thoughts. I highly doubt that any one on here knew exactly what to do the very first time. Not trying to offend or disrespect anyone, so for those that are willing to help please keep your post coming. I can use all the guidance I can get. It will truly be most appreciated!

Thank you! :)
 
#28 ·
I am not a breeder but from what I've gleaned from this forum from the serious hobby (and reputable) breeders that are--they did not start their foray into breeding based on an oops litter, they joined their local golden retriever club, found themselves a mentor and learned as much as they could about the breed.

Have you considered contacting your local golden rescue to assist with the adoption of these pups? You of course wouldn't make a penny (if that's your motivation), but you'd likely have at your disposal some caring and experienced volunteers that can help the pups get the proper care & socialization required and then ensure they are placed into carefully screened homes who won't perpetuate backyard breeding.
 
#29 ·
Again, poor choice of word when I said I was a breeder. If the mods can please remove and modify the title of my thread, that would be most appreciated.

I did not join this forum and post this thread in order to sell, I joined so I can learn about the breed in order to become the best owner I can be. Now if and when the time comes to be a breeder, then I will do my do diligents to become one. I appreciate the info you provided. It's something to think about. The good news is we were able to contact the breeder that sold us Leo and she is going to help us out. :)
 
#30 ·
I think it's great that you have such an interest in this wonderful breed. There is no reason why you can't one day be a serious hobby breeder - it probably won't be with your current dogs but once you have proven yourself another hobby breeder can take you on as a mentee and you will eventually aquire your foundation dogs. I have compiled some resources for you to give you some background on reputable breeding practices. The only path towards reputable breeding is getting involved in great detail in the dog world -
competition, clubs, animal welfare, etc. Few members here are breeders but the vast majority of us are pretty passionate about not putting anymore Goldens out there who might be prone to things like dysphasia and other genetic issues so we want breeders to at least get all the necessary genetic tests done and know all the genetic history of their dogs.

The ABC's of buying a purebred puppy

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/71378-what-clearances-look-like.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/22440-puppy-buyers-fact-checker.html

Dog Breeders

What areas are you interest in competing in with your dogs? I do tracking and am just getting started in K9 Nosework. We have many members who hunt and do field trials and many who are great at competitive obedience and agility.
 
#33 ·
Looked at many of the links and still researching. To all that posted them and to all that posted constructive/ positive feedback, I would like to thank you. I am sure I will obtain all the proper paperwork and that should should hopefully change what some may think. What is important to my family and I is the well being of the dogs. That is what is important here!

Thank you, :)
 
#36 ·
Looked at many of the links and still researching. To all that posted them and to all that posted constructive/ positive feedback, I would like to thank you. I am sure I will obtain all the proper paperwork and that should should hopefully change what some may think. What is important to my family and I is the well being of the dogs. That is what is important here!

Thank you, :)
The documentaton that is important relates to the health clearances of the parents (eyes, hip scores, elbow, heart). Unless your dogs have had these clearances/tests done (generally before a litter is bred) the documentaton will not be there. It will not come from the breeder of your dogs, it is part of what the owner does when the dogs are old enough for testing - (if he/she intends to breed from the adults). This is different from registration documentation.
 
#37 ·
I always tell my vet of the expected date.... in case of a problem. But the last thing I or let me rephrase to "any of the breeders that I come in contact with" want is to bring a litter to a vet clinic. If the vet makes a house call then fine but to bring a litter into a vets office where there are dogs that have had kennel cough or parvo or whatever is honestly foolhardy... and lets not forget herpes which has become more and more of an issue here... Unless there is a problem with mom, most of us don't bring her in either unless we absolutely have to... again things travel of clothing and fur and to expose the little ones to anything doesn't make sense. In talking to my UK friends I will say it does seem like UK vets are more willing to make house calls than most US vets... although there are some that do it here as well but it is not easy to find someone that will.

Now to get back to this person who says think back to when you were a new breeder ...
happily

I had not intended on being a "breeder" ... but I had gotten a lovely flat coat bitch but a local woman who showed her dogs and competed in multi venues. She asked me if I were willing to show the girl... I was like sure what the heck...

That girl was entered in her first show at 6 mos where she beat one other dog... her second show at 11 mos where she went BOB and she was shown 2-3 times a month thereafter winning the breed and group placements in all but a handful of shows for the rest of her show career which lasted until her first litter at age 5 when she went to westminster and was bred her next season.

I KNEW her registered name, five gens of pedigree and clearances, I knew her strengths and faults structurally. She had her obedience title and Am. Can. Ch. She had hips, patella, elbow, thyroid and eye clearances (flat coats don't require hearts, well they need hearts just not heart clearances)

Prior to the litter I talked ot other breeders, studied potential dogs, and researched pedigrees. I drove to Ontario to see more than a few dogs before I made a final decision based on pedigree knowledge as to who I was going ot breed her to. We did the breeding... I talked to my vet about watching him whelp a few litters so I could learn and not be so nervous and he told me that it probably wouldn't help because all he sees are c-sections and litters in trouble... so much for that.

The day her temperature dropped I called my mentor who came and sat in my house that evening and we whelped puppies ... well she whelped pups, I watched and weighed, tagged and logged the information.

I have 9 dogs here and while several are older now and spayed or neutered, We have two (well a recent addition adds a third) breeds here.... but even now two intact breeds. Goldens and Irish Wolfhound (the flats are all spayed/neutered now) and we have NEVER had an accidental litter. EVER!!!

So no most of us don't begin by being a backyard breeder.

The last thing I would like to say or ask shall it be... is your statement about not breeding them until they were ready....what does that mean... when would they have been ready? How did you determine that they were a good match for each other structurally ??
 
#38 ·
Does anyone have a checklist of what they do with a new litter through 8 weeks?

And a checklist of what they want to see with the puppies and mom - healthwise?

And a checklist of what they don't want to see with the puppies and mom - healthwise?

And a checklist of what they want or don't want in a new owner, for screening puppy buyers.

I think it's completely obvious from everything discussed on this forum what we feel about dogs being bred like this. Many of us with intact dogs have to fight against the stigma that this causes, even if we keep our animals intact for health reasons and not with the intention of breeding them ever. And have a 20 years history of owning intact dogs without breeding them.

In this case the damage has already been done. I think we can all be thankful that the OP is taking care of mom and puppies instead of dumping them into rescue. Same thing that they are looking for advice on what to do.

I have a coworker who lives on a rural road (it's right by where I board my horse). Every barn owner on that stretch of road has had cats and dogs, including those with litters or preggers, dropped off on their property by people who has had "accidents" happen. In the case of my coworker she was stressed out of her mind because it cost her $100 per kitten for spaying/neutering/care, and every few months more would be dropped off on her property.

There are people like that out there.

I don't even think that right now is the time to be discussing how much the breeders are going to charge for all these puppies. Right now they have to provide care, early socialization, handling, etc for these puppies for 8 weeks.
 
#41 ·
I really did not expect that by introducing myself and the family that it would turn into a big debate. Perhaps the title of the thread is misleading and I sincerely apologize. I would ask that the Mods allow me to change the title or if they can, so that this thread can get on track. It would be most appreciated. :)


I have said it once, twice and now again. If you have constructive input I am all ears. If you don't, then I would appreciate you keep you comments to yourselves and move on to another thread! All negative and unproductive post/comments simply are useless and do not help! Again, no disrespect intended, I just would like to focus on Mommy, Daddy and their twelve pups. Gather valuable and productive information and apply it. It's obvious even amongst "professionals", that there are different opinions.

Thank you, :)
 
#44 · (Edited)
Thnk you very much for the welcome! I actually removed them, but I will post some better ones later. :)

Golden Lozano, I'm afraid it won't matter if you change the title of your thread or not. You are going to get, and have already received, some negative criticism from the reputable breeders on this site.

My main concern is that there are 12 puppies on the ground and a mom who just gave birth. I am glad that the person you bought your female from is going to help you. I would hope that others with knowledge on this board will help you too.
Well, I was told that I basically "put myself on the plank" because I am "calling myself a breeder" I was under the impression that by having a litter you atomatically are. Boy was I wrong!!! I guess it touched a nerve or two among those that truly are "professional" and reputable breeders.

I hope so to. :) Your concerns are truly legitimate and I share them with you. I am confident that this will turn out to be a positive learning experience. I have already learned from those that had positive input. I just respectfully ask that those who are or are thinking of posting negative criticism... dont!!! It does not help and it's useless energy wasted. I would like to keep on track and remain focused for the better of the puppies, mom and dad. I don't think that is to much to ask. :)
 
#43 ·
Golden Lozano, I'm afraid it won't matter if you change the title of your thread or not. You are going to get, and have already received, some negative criticism from the reputable breeders on this site.

My main concern is that there are 12 puppies on the ground and a mom who just gave birth. I am glad that the person you bought your female from is going to help you. I would hope that others with knowledge on this board will help you too.
 
#45 ·
It's a very touchy subject here. But since the babies are here... Have you any potential adopters? Have you made a checklist of what you expect from the puppies potential owners? A contract is a great idea to help safeguard the pups futures. Though they aren't full proof, they can often weed out the folks who aren't into ownership for the long haul. It can deter *impulse-buyers*. I wouldn't be as concerned with their papers, but that's just me. I'd definitely have a chat with your vet to put the pups on a vacc's and deworming schedule. =)
 
#46 ·
Thank you, To answer your questions: Yes, working on it and definitely looking into going about doing so.

Talking with the vet is going to be a must in order to do exactly what you have said. :) I appreciate your constructive input. :)
 
#51 ·
Without a rant regarding the mistakes that you have made already, just two questions - Why are you breeding?????? and are you planning on breeding more?????

Please ensure that your puppies are all sold with a non-breeding contract! I'm sure that you wouldn't want any of those cute puppies becoming breeders @ a puppy mill.
 
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#53 · (Edited)
Without a rant regarding the mistakes that you have made already, just two questions - Why are you breeding?????? and are you planning on breeding more?????

Please ensure that your puppies are all sold with a non-breeding contract! I'm sure that you wouldn't want any of those cute puppies becoming breeders @ a puppy mill.



Not to be rude, but you obviously have not read the entire thread or you are just quick to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am not! As far as the future goes, I don't know. Maybe, Maybe not. Maybe not even with these two. I clearly stated that in this thread. As I mentioned in one of my post, The title to my thread is perhaps misleading. :)

Do you have anything positive and productive to add to the conversation? If not, then please refer to post #41: "I have said it once, twice and now again. If you have constructive input, I am all ears. If you don't, then I would appreciate you keep you comments to yourselves and move on to another thread!"

Thank you. :)
 
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