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8K views 51 replies 15 participants last post by  3goldens2keep 
#1 ·
Hello, I'm new to this forum and quite honestly wish I didn't have to be here since I found it because I'm worried about my pup. Jake is 12 1/2 years old. He is on apoquel (allergies), enanapril (for his kidneys...protein in his urine) and Thyro Tabs for his thyroid. For the past 3 years, we have been feeding him a homemade diet. He is the light of my life and right now I can't stop crying about him.

About 10 days ago, his back legs gave out on him. When I kept going over it in my mind, I thought I kind of saw him jerk forward and then fall, but I wasn't sure. About four days later, it happened again but it looked like he was twitching. Over the past 4 or 5 days, it looks as though he is having a seizure. The weird thing is that it mostly happens after he wakes up and is stretching and shaking his head. All of a sudden his whole body twitches for a few seconds. This sometimes happens over and over for a few minutes. Afterwards he looks at me confused as if to say what is wrong with me?

I took a video of it and sent it to the vet. He thought it looked like a seizure and wanted to try pheno to see if the "seizures" stopped. We started him on it an hour ago. The vet never took any tests since the seizures started and want to try to treat it this way. He never mentioned Thyroid or anything else.

I really don't know what I'm asking of any of you other than something to make me feel a little better about what my pup is going through. One thing I know for sure is that it's very scary.

Sorry for babbling and thanks for reading.
 
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#3 ·
So sorry to hear about your difficulties. Sounds like a lot going on with your pooch that perhaps deserves a second opinion. Not sure I would assume that the disorientation, loss of coordination & strength is related to seizures. Even if that is the case I would wonder about an underlying cause. Perhaps it is time to have a direct conversation with your vet about your concerns. If you don't like what you hear, seek a second opinion.
 
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#5 ·
Yes I understand that feeling. What can help is clear information and explanations as to why medical decisions are being made with you included in the decision making process. Has your vet seen Jake or just the video?
 
#8 ·
You may want to ask about a referral to a neurologist if you don't feel you're getting answers from your vet.

My senior had some similar symptoms, though not identical and we went to a neurologist and got a diagnosis, doing so involved a CAT scan. My boy was a bit younger than yours and I am fortunate enough to be able to afford this, so I wanted to get to the bottom of some very strange symptoms. With seizures and anything involving the brain, getting a diagnosis can be very difficult and expensive and you will have to think about how far to go and how much to put your boy through. The medication will quickly control seizures, but I am pretty sure getting a definitive diagnosis will require imaging - at least that's my experience.

I'll just mention that my boy also had a squamous cell tumor removed prior to this, and the oncologist we consulted said to stop Apoquel.
 
#9 ·
I have to be honest here. I have been reading on here for hours...especially in the Seizures thread. I am so overwhelmed with worry and grief over what to do and what not to do. I am staring at Jake waiting for something to happen. I am worried about what the pheno will do to him. I am learining things I didn't want to learn. I know knowledge is power but right now its not working for me. I am scared to death. I have to stop looking.
 
#11 ·
I posted for the first time last night in the general health thread, but this seems to be the right place.

My heart Jake is 12 years and 8 months old. About 10 days ago, his back legs gave out. After thinking about it, I realized that it looked like he jerked forward first but I thought I was crazy. AFter a few more days passed, his body was kind of trembling for a few seconds. It was almost as if he was cold but he wasnt. Next day, his head twitched and bobbed a little. I would describe it almost like someone with Parkinsons. Well, since Wednesday he has these moments of his head and body twitching. It lasts about 5 seconds at most. Sometimes he would have 3 or 4 of these a few minutes apart. I took a video and sent it to his vet. He thinks he might be having seizures. As of last night, he has been on Pheno.

Past health history: Apoquel for allergies......Enalapril for protein in his urine....Thyrotab for hypothoride. Now he is on the Pheno.
He has only had 3 doses so far and is already showing signs of Ataxia (amazing how after 1 day I am using medical words learned from his forum. :(

I am sad, depressed, crying, overwhelmed, you name it! I keep reading the forum looking for something to give me hope, but I just get more depressed.

So 1 question I have is how long does it usually take for them to get used to the pheno and for the Ataxia to lessen...or doesn't it? I wish I could upload the small video that I sent to the vet, but so far can't figure out how to do it.:|



:crying::frown2:
 
#20 ·
So 1 question I have is how long does it usually take for them to get used to the pheno and for the Ataxia to lessen...or doesn't it?
If the ataxia is being caused or exacerbated by the Phenobarbital, he should adjust to it after a few weeks of being on it. Sometimes seizures are due to misfiring neurons caused by epilepsy and sometimes the misfiring neurons are being caused by another underlying condition which may also cause ataxia. Hopefully the Phenobarbital controls the seizures and he doesn't have any other underlying conditions. You may want to consider bringing him to a veterinary hospital that has vets that specialize in neurology. I hope you see some improvement soon!
 
#14 ·
I am so sorry for your heartache. Have you reached out to the vet with your questions? I hope you are able to get the answers you need and it allows you to make the best decisions for Jake's quality of life and your peace of mind as you navigate this. Have you tried searching facebook for some groups or a Golden Retriever discussion group where you might get more input from GOlden owners who have gone through this?
 
#17 ·
You're posting in the Seizure thread, the thread you started yesterday is in the Health and Anatomy section.

Did you call your Vet about the problems your boy is having with the medication?
If he's having a lot of problems, I would call an Emergency Vet Clinic.

I don't have any experience or knowledge with seizures either.
 
#23 ·
There are other seizure medications that can be used if he is having an adverse reaction to the phenobarbital. I really think you should take him in to your vet and have them look at him. Animals and humans all react to seizure medications differently. What works for one doesn't always work for all. Seizure medicines save lives and improve the quality of them everyday, but you have to find the right one.

Well wishes sent your way!
 
#25 ·
So Jake has been on the Pheno for 2 weeks today. His ataxia had gotten better. He has a hard time getting up, but once he is up, he is good. The actual seizures stopped but I feel like he had the pre seizure symptoms without us actually seeing the seizure. Two hours ago, he had a real focal seizure for the first time since the meds. It lasts only a few seconds just like it did before the mded. We have a neuro appt Monday at 9. :( I was starting to feel optimistic but not anymore.
 
#26 ·
Took Jake to the neurologist this past Monday. He said he wasn't convinced it was seizures. It could be something like what people experience as tics. He said we had 3 choices: First choice was to do an MRI and we can find out for sure what is going on. This test cost $5000 and unfortunetly we are not in the financial positiion to do that.

Second choice was to do a complete blood work up for $700. This may or may not tell us what is wrong. Third choice was to mix and match medications until he found some relief.
We chose to do the bloodwork. The only thing this showed us was that his organs etc are functioning normally and his levels are all ok. They put him on gabapentin. This medicine is used for pain from arthritis, cancer etc and also for seizures. In addition, he is still on the phenobarbital.
We have been giving him the gabapentin since Wednesday night. We are noticing his "twitches", Seizures, Tics....whatever they are seem to be worsening. He is also barking a lot. We are at a loss. We have a call into the Neuro to see what we should do.
Has anyone else been prescribed gabapentin for their dogs seizures etc?
Feeling a little desperate.
 
#28 ·
I am sorry for what you and Jake are going through. It is frustrating to go through vets, specialists and not getting a proper diagnosis. Unfortunately, seizures, especially with aging dog may have many different origins.

One possibility is Jake’s seizures are related to his decreasing renal function. It is not uncommon myoclonic seizures (I think this is what I see in the video, uncontrolled muscle movement and twitching) accompany the progression of kidney disease.
You say Jake had his full blood work and it was OK. Do you do urine tests to assess the progression of his renal disease? Does he have proteinuria, what is his urine concentration? The blood parameters can be perfectly normal until about 85% of kidneys function are compromised. My dog had perfect blood readings the same week he passed away from kidney failure, but he had severe proteinuria and his urine concentration was 0 for a few months before he died. For us the first sign of the problem was also his hind legs giving away. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is the renal failure.
Gabapentin can worsen myoclonic seizures. See the link to the epilepsy journal. With renal disease and seizures, the recommend medications are from benzodiazepines family.
Treating seizures in renal and hepatic failure

Keeping Jake on enalapril is a good thing. Do you measure his blood pressure; maybe he needs a higher dose of enalapril. In addition, you mention Jake is on home cooked diet (my dogs as well). You want to feed him high quality, low protein diet (egg whites, fish etc) avoiding too much phosphorus.
I also recommend CBD oil. I currently have a dog with some sort of neurological movement issue. It might be seizures, though if they are they are very different from the typical ones. I think he has paroxysmal dyskinesia so the AED drugs don’t work anyway. My guy was on gabapentin for a bit but it didn’t work.

Good luck to you and Jake! Please keep us posted. I hope for no more seizures.
 
#29 ·
You gave me some interesting information. When I looked up myoclonic seizures, it sounds like him. I have a call in to the neurologist to talk to him about it but I doubt I will hear until tomorrow. You did scare me though when you told me your pup died the same week his bloodwork was o.k. I am very sorry. His urine hasn't been tested since May. That also makes me wonder why the neurologist didn't include this in his testing.

Although knowledge is power, I don't think looking up too many things on the internet is the right choice for me. I get overwhelmed and panicked. I'm trying to just write my questions down, keep a journal and wait for the doctor.

By the way, can myoclonic seizures be treated? Do you know if they are in pain from them?
 
#31 · (Edited)
They are not in pain during the seizures. Also with myoclonic seizures, the dogs/humans are conscious, so there is no danger of brain damage due to the shortage of oxygen. The only reason myoclonic seizures are called generalized is there is no guarantee the next seizure will not be the typical clonic/tonic when the animal loses conscience and there is a risk of brain damage.

Given Jake’s age this type of seizure is most likely a result of underlying condition rather than being idiopathic epilepsy, so it would be best to figure out and treat the underlying condition to stop the seizures rather than focusing on treating the seizures in isolation.

I didn’t mean to scare you. I was hoping to bring your attention to other markers rather than rely on blood results. It could be that increasing the dose on enalapril to ease the pressure on nephrons, or flashing the kidneys on occasion (we did that with my Buddy) could improve Jake’s kidney function and stop the seizures. This is just my guess as myoclonic seizures and not other types of seizures are associated with renal disease. But there could be many other possibilities.
 
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