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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sweet Girl View Post
I tried to educate a colleague of mine this past summer about why getting a designer breed was a bad idea - all very reasoned, explaining about the lack of health clearances (she was buying a mix of two giant breeds with no hip tests or anything), the mistruths about them being healthier, no guarantees on temperament, etc. and absolutely none of it mattered. It fell on deaf ears. Her mind was made up. She just loved the look of the dog.

I had no argument for that. And I knew my efforts were futile. Nothing mattered but how cute the dog was.
That's the thing, people buy for looks and don't consider anything else. Although, I think doodles are pretty much the ugliest things you could get so I don't know how so many people think they so cute. But looks is what it came down to for a friend of mine who got a doodle. I gave her all the info, all the facts, told her all the lies surrounding "designer" dogs, suggested she just get a well-bred purebred standard poodle since her biggest thing was she wanted a big dog that didn't shed. But her response was that she just likes how doodles look. I told her I could groom a poodle to look like a doodle, that did nothing for her though. Another response I heard was, "Well, so and so has a doodle and they really love him." Well of course they love him, its their dog! Whether or not a person loves their dog is not a good indication of how healthy or easy to train or whatever that it is!



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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 01:49 PM
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While I have no no interest in ever owning a "doodle", my parents have an Australian Cobberdog and she is very well mannered, extremely smart and easy to train and a really great dog for my parents. My parents looked far and wide for a breeder who actually does OFA hip/elbow testing as well as genetic testing on their dogs. These dogs have their own registry and breed standard, yet are not an AKC recognized breed...as far as I know that is the only 'doodle' type dog that seems to be heading in the direction of becoming its own breed.

I have to laugh though...there are very very few dog breeds that were not at one time or another influenced by other breeds and then bred with other breeds until breed founders were happy with what they got and then kept breeding those mixes before those mixes were recognized as a breed.

I AGREE that today 'doodles' are often a marketing ploy by uneducated and completely illegitimate breeders just trying to make a buck off of designer dogs. It really is sad. Often times the 'allure' of a non-shedding coat blinds people into thinking they are making an educated decision when in reality they are most certainly not..

To the OP, I think in your situation all you can really do is explain to them why you would be extremely cautious to get a doodle, and offer alternative breeds that †hey could look at. Unfortunately some people will have their minds made up on the 'doodle' dilemma before they really know the truth.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 02:11 PM
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Yes, tell them the grooming prices. lol They are only cute as puppies. I have been around 2 of them. One in our puppy class. He was cute as could be but very high strung and would not listen. The mom kept looking at my Golden like she wanted to trade. Mine did as she was told. One of my neighbors got one the same time as I got my Golden. That poor dog was so hyper it was sad, and it just really reminded me of a mop.I would try to write a tactful letter about your knowledge of the breed and hopefully they listen. People are funny about what kinds of dogs they want so it's hard to tell them otherwise. Good luck!
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 02:54 PM
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To each their own, etc.

Dogs are a very personal choice. No matter the breed they are a huge commitment. All of us are on a different journey. Some dogs just turn out to be absolute treasures. My once in a lifetime dog was an English Mastiff. I didn't and don't love the breed...but I loved him. I would keep your opinion to yourself unless they ask for it. If they do ask, then by all means, be honest (but gentle). That famous saying comes to mind... "People won't remember what you said, they will remember how you made them feel."
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 03:00 PM
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I have to laugh though...there are very very few dog breeds that were not at one time or another influenced by other breeds and then bred with other breeds until breed founders were happy with what they got and then kept breeding those mixes before those mixes were recognized as a breed.
Where this does not work though is doodles.

With goldens and other established breeds, they are what they are because of over 100 years worth of breeding true generation after generation without going back and mixing them with foundation breeds.

And you had very rich guys doing all this - at a time when "mistakes" were culled. You did not have people setting up a business of selling their mistakes.

As well, there is a mentality of people out there who get hooked onto "hybrid" breeds. And as long as these dogs are not truly compounded and mixed beyond a point, they get all excited about buying them because it's like buying an improved golden or an improved poodle.

And right now we are on a second generation of people who for whatever reason think that doodles are a normal "purebred" breed. It never occurs to them that this is still a mutt that has 1 breed for a dad and another for the mom.

All those people have no clue what makes a breed a breed.

It's not mixing this with that and coming up with an all new recipe.

You need purpose and again you need to independent of other breeds - breed true, generation after generation after generation for a long time before AKC recognizes that breed as a real breed.

Right now all the doodles that are being created shows NO INTENTION of breeding long term a breed that is consistent generation after generation without having to be bred back to either goldens or poodles.

And also, you have people producing "doodle" mixes with everything that is breedable.

And a lot of these people have no access to good dogs and breeders are working a little hard to keep it that way. Which means these breeders are producing crap from crap they scraped out of the bottom of the bucket somewhere. That might be petstore dogs or backyard bred dogs or whatever. They are using dogs who have no clearances or anything to recommend them. And because the pet owners are looking for a frizzy weird looking dog, they have no ability to see what's wrong with the parents. It's basically the worst version of backyard breeding gone viral. That's all of it. Even when you have people CHANGING THE NAME to something else to hide the fact that they are breeding labradoodles.

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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 04:31 PM
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I think it's great to offer advice before someone has purchased a dog but I don't think it's all that constructive once the decision has been made. At that point it's better to encourage them to properly care for the dog in terms of grooming, training, and exercise.
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megora View Post
And a lot of these people have no access to good dogs and breeders are working a little hard to keep it that way. Which means these breeders are producing crap from crap they scraped out of the bottom of the bucket somewhere. That might be petstore dogs or backyard bred dogs or whatever. They are using dogs who have no clearances or anything to recommend them. And because the pet owners are looking for a frizzy weird looking dog, they have no ability to see what's wrong with the parents. It's basically the worst version of backyard breeding gone viral. That's all of it. Even when you have people CHANGING THE NAME to something else to hide the fact that they are breeding labradoodles.
I agree with you, 100%. The doodle fad is crazy to me, I think it is crazy to everyone on this forum because we are all golden retriever people. What my parents decide to do is none of my business...believe me, I tried to sell them on almost every other 'hypo-allergenic' dog breed (my father loves dogs but is extremely allergic). The ONLY reason I bring up Australian Labradoodles is because they have a registry, code of ethics, a parent club and do breed true (if you are one of the FEW breeders who does everything the right way. They are also exclusively multigenerational, so theoretically breeders do not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find lab + poodle to make a mutt). Trust me I did a lot of research when my parents got their puppy, knowing full well that I was already biased against these crosses.

Again, everyone likes different things, and it sounds like the OP already has their own opinions on doodles as we all do, just wanted to clarify my original point, if it was not clear.
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:34 PM
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Go to the embark website and look up the tests for goldens and goldendoodles. There's about twice as many concerns for the doodle. Honestly though, they probably won't listen. I tried to keep my mom from buying her 3rd pet store puppy. Didn't work.
These designer breeds seem to have so many issues. Around here, a majority of doodles come from a local service dog organization. They breed their own labradoodles, goldendoodles and golden lab crosses. They are placing them with children. Can you imagine having a seriously disabled child and a dog that needs so much grooming?
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by EmmaKFricke View Post
They are also exclusively multigenerational, so theoretically breeders do not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find lab + poodle to make a mutt). Trust me I did a lot of research when my parents got their puppy, knowing full well that I was already biased against these crosses.
I'd expect them to prove it.

I did a look up of the supposed breed you mentioned earlier and every website I looked at bragged about having DNA or whatever - but there was no pedigree posted anywhere to prove it. It's again a big issue of misleading people with false claims.

If you have somebody breeding dogs true for 20-50+ years - that would be a huge deal. And I'd expect to see pedigrees posted to show that these are not just second generation dogs going on a third generation.

Besides the whole moral of breeding mutts who have no breed standard or any checks or balances to ensure they actually are breeding true to someting... there is also the problem where these dogs are not healthier than the parents and you have compounded issues because there were no health checks done on the parents and the history behind the parents was unknown. As generally is the case when you buy a dog from a petstore which got the dogs from a dog farm somewhere.

I had neighbors (they've retired and moved north by now) who originally had a toy poodle when they married. Wife was the owner of the toy poodle and she married a hunting type guy (and I mean big time - they had antlers hanging over their front door and a bear staring out one of the windows). When the toy poodle died, they bought a labradoodle. And the reason why was she loved her poodles, but he wanted a "real dog". So the doodle was a compromise.

Dog was about 9-10 years old when he was becoming very disabled from bad hips. And he also had neurological problems (either EIC which is a lab problem or it was a form of epilepsy) - these got pretty bad by the time he was a senior. He also had eye problems, might add.

Great dog. Hunting dog. Was a more rugged type of poodle. More bone than a poodle, more size (height) than a lab. But health was crap.

A lot of people jumping in and buying these mutts have no concept of good breeders in both goldens and poodles are actually doing to produce healthy and sound dogs generation after generation.

And in some cases, the only exposure some of these people have to either breed is really crapy bred dogs - so maybe they don't know any better.

Anyone who likes the look of doodles - they probably would be better of getting a breed like a Wheaton, Otterhound, or any of the other breeds out there which have a similar look... but are significantly healthier and sounder than a mutt coming from somebody who knows nothing about anything but buying any dog they can get their hands on and then spawning mutt-puppies to sell.

And to double down on my point, btw... the average person out there thinks that all you need in order to get well bred puppies is to put a purebred dog with another purebred dog, both papers, and let nature have its way. But the cold hard facts are that there's a lot of goldens out there and a lot of poodles out there - all who should never ever be bred. It's poor quality in structure, temperament, and type which makes these dogs endearing to their owners in some cases, but ultimately scraping the bottom of the bucket in the eyes of people who do have access to very nice dogs.

And I'm not kidding.

People who go to dog shows are bound to sit there at ring side and being all in awe over the beautiful dogs in the ring - thinking these are all very well bred dogs! But even in the show rings, there's dogs shown any day who technically should not be bred. Or would be a breeders ultimate last choice based on something about them.

That's breeders that put a lot of thought and extra effort in selecting studs for their breeding programs or where they buy their girls from. They are not just getting or using anything that happens to be the same breed as what they have or want to breed. This is selection.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has gotten approached by people who are looking for stud dogs at petstores or just walking downtown. And if I have time, I will prop an elbow and ask them questions about clearances going back the past 10 generations, I will ask about pedigrees the past 10 generations, and I will continue asking them all kinds of questions about their own dogs before I finally told them why it was no go. In a lot of cases, if the female is very VERY poor breed quality, there is no way I'd want my dog to be used. Doesn't even matter if the girl has clearances - I still would not OK that type of breeding. And so on.


Last edited by Megora; 01-23-2019 at 08:14 PM.
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 05:05 PM
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I have friends with Goldendoodles, who just love them. They shed, but not as much. They (generally) have the sweet disposition of a golden, and very intelligent mind of a poodle. Plus, many golden owners have gone the "doodle route" because of the high amount of cancer in the Golden world.

Not my thing either, but so what? If someone wants one, I think that is great. People love Pitbulls and Cane Canarios, and I don't get that either. And, if spending a high about of $$ for a dog they love is what they want to do, fine by me. As long as they treat the dog with love and care, so be it.
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