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Suggestions on dealing with a difficult breeder

31K views 86 replies 47 participants last post by  karadecar 
#1 ·
Hi all, I introduced Riley a couple of weeks ago and mentioned that the breeder we purchased him from is washing her hands of any responsibility for his heart murmur. The purpose of this post is twofold. First of all I am trying to make contact with the other person who's new puppy also developed a heart murmur after being taken home. The breeder is Sandra Lynn of Waterdown and her dogs are registered under the kennel name "Felicity's". I am hoping that person will see this post and contact me. I'm interested in the response she received when she informed the breeder of the pup's affliction.

Secondly, I am seeking thoughtful suggestions as to how to proceed in dealing with this woman. When I purchased Riley I opted not to pay an extra $200 far a health guarantee because she very proudly documented the health clearances of her bloodlines, and if any normal health issues occurred throughout his life I was fully prepared to deal with them. However when at 12 weeks my vet discovered he had a gr 2 heart murmur which had progressed to gr 3 by 16 weeks I felt that the breeder should take some reponsibility. We are too attached to Riley to give him up and will deal with whatever circumstances present themselves throughout his life, but my requests to have her at least cover the cost of the diagnostic ultrasound have been met with animosity and accusations that I am trying to extort money from her. I've given up trying to reaon with her and am now contemplating legal action. Some honest, objective input would be very much appreciated.
 
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#5 ·
Hi there,
I just started talking with sandy regarding a 5 month old puppy named burnsey who he admits has a slight heart murmur. I was trying to find her kennel on line to research her and I came across your post here. Was riley born on the 5th day of a month this year (or maybe it was a 4th).
I am a little worried as I am trying to get more photos of Burnsey and she is unable to provide. I get that doggies have heart murmurs but a little alarmed of your experience.
I also have this fear that she took riley back from you and maybe trying to resell him.
Does your vet say that life for riley is going to be tough? I love goldies and can provide for them but if they are set up for failure that is unacceptable.

I would really appreciate it if you could send me a note back about your entire experience.
 
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#7 ·
I agree with the others. You chose to get your pup from a irresponsible breeder, and then chose not to buy the health guarantee, so you don't have a health guarantee. What part of the contract (assuming you have a contract) did the breeder break? What part of the health guarantee that you didn't buy did she break?

Honestly what I see is buyers remorse. You made a poor decision about where to buy your puppy and the health guarantee and now you want to go back after those decisions to the breeder.

I am sorry that your Riley is sick... I am sure he is a very nice puppy and it is terrible to see them sick... had you gotten him from a reputable breeder we would have been right there assisting you and supporting you... but what's done is done. I honestly don't think you have grounds for legal action and don't think that you will get anywhere with the breeder. Hopefully you can have the echo done and find out it is a harmless murmur... many of them are, even noisy murmurs can be nothing but that, noisy.
 
#8 ·
I don't know why anyone would need to pay any extra for a health guarantee. Shouldn't the puppies they place be healthy for the original price. I think that is a scam if you ask me and someone I would have walked away. Don't know what more the 200. would have helped you anyway how the breeder is responding. I really don't know what you can do with the breeder and it is sad to know they washed hands with you. As a breeder you would think they would at least want to know your puppies outcome for future of their breeding program. Did they have the puppies to a vet before they came home to you. I know I give my families get the vet certificate when they are seen around 6 or 7 weeks. If so maybe you can call the vet and see if they will possibly give you any history. In the mean time I would get the puppy to a cardiologist.
 
#9 ·
The only legal action you might have would be if your state has puppy lemon laws. If you can prove this person is selling puppies she knows have heart problems you may have a case through state laws.
 
#10 ·
Actually SAS is hereditary, not necessarily congenital. I have seen numerous cases where the murmur didn't develop until further down the line. That is why you cannot get a cardiac clearance until 12 months. All clear parents, etc does not insure all clear hearts on pups. In Maine, there are lemon laws. Get an echo and figure it it.
 
#11 ·
Until further diagnostics are done (echo), you don't quite know what you're dealing with yet. We got a golden a long time ago that was diagnosed with a rather loud murmur (5/6) at her first vet visit after we got her. We went to the cardiologist, had the echo done and turns out it was an innocent murmur. She has always had the murmur to this day, but no physiological cause for it and remains healthy at 12 years of age (knock on wood). I notified our breeder just to let her know and she was kind enough to refund some of the purchase price of the puppy to help cover the cost of vet bills, although she was not obligated to at all and certainly not something I expected.

Although your breeder should be more involved, sounds like there were many red flags going into this. The additional charge for a health guarantee would be one of them.

Please keep us updated on what the echo says.
 
#12 ·
Not to be harsh, but if you opted out of the health guarantee...why would you then expect her to do anything for you.

Having said this I have never heard of someone having to pay extra for a health guarantee and I would have walked. .we live and learn.

As others have said, get the echo and see what you are trully dealing with!!!! I am hoping it is just and innocent murmur...good luck
 
#14 ·
I do think you have a right to expect the animal you purchased to be in good health, even without buying a health guarantee. Paying extra for the health guarantee, to me, is like purchasing extended warranty, not a warranty period.

You don't buy a guarantee when you purchase a lot of things, but there still is an expectation that the item will be in good working order when purchased new. Unfortunately, with most things all you can do is return the item.
 
#15 ·
I had a puppy come from a breeder, and my vet found a 4/5 heart murmur. I returned the puppy within the first 48 hours, bc his prognosis was very grim. The breeder then had the puppy examined by a cardiologist who agreed. I will never forget that waterfall sound in the heart, and the sadness of a beautiful puppy who would not live to be two. My heart goes out to anyone dealing with a serious murmur.
 
#17 ·
I agree with others that you probably don't have any legal recourse here. I don't know the breeder or the details beyond what you posted here, but I don't know of any law that would enable you to seek financial restitution from the breeder in the situation you described. A puppy lemon law probably wouldn't help you at this point.

I'm very sorry that your pup has a murmur. Since pursuing the breeder for money probably won't go anywhere, it might be time simply to figure out what you can do to manage the condition moving forward from here. Why not start a thread about the murmur? There are some knowledgable folks here and those of us without much heart murmur experience are still very supportive and friendly.

I'll keep an eye out for Riley threads.
 
#19 ·
I am total agreement with the others who posted here. Just the so called health guarantee extra charge would have made me walk away immediately. Since you decided to still deal with this creeder and did not purchase the health thingy I do not see how you can take that breeder to court.
The only thing you can do is use your word of mouth power by telling your story on these forums, facebbok etc and hopefully this breeder will either change the way they do business or stop breeding altogether.
 
#20 ·
Response to Megora

Hi there,

No I have not purchased a pup from her. I was hoping Riley's human would give me a birthdate or riley so I can just know if they are from the same litter.
I have asked for some more detailed information on the pup's parents and I have not heard anything back. Nor has she been able to send me pictures of him in present time. So I am a bit nervous - no I have not put any money down.

My late Ryley was diagnosed with a heart murmur on and off over the years and some vets were horrified and some were not so worried. My thoughts were to be cognizant of it but what could I really do? I don't know how many open heart surgeries are done on doggies.

Some of the posters here have lovely looking goldies.. I will have to be in touch.
 
#21 ·
I have never heard of a breeder charging extra for a health guarantee, and I agree with the others, I would have walked away.

This is not meant to offend, but why, after reading what has been posted on this thread, by members much more knowledgeable than myself, would you even still be considering a puppy from this woman?

I have 2 wonderful goldens from southern ontario. There are many reputable breeders in this area to choose from, why not use one of them and save yourself some possible heartache.

I know there is someone in Waterdown area, that is breeding "comfort" goldens, GR's crossed with cocker spaniels resulting in a "golden retriever looking" dog weighing 40-45 lbs. This is not the same person, is it?
 
#22 ·
I wouldn't have considered a breeder who expected more money to receive a health guarantee. A reputable breeder will provide a written guarantee which is included in the cost of the puppy. Our breeder provided a health guarantee for hereditary conditions for life, a 1 year pet insurance policy, lifetime guarantee that if we could not care for the dog any longer that she would take the dog back and find it a new home, as well as CKC registration. If you are purchasing a pup from a breeder, I think the above is necessary to find in a breeder. I wouldn't have gotten a dog from a breeder without it.
 
#23 ·
Reply to Milkie's mom

Good morning,
I am not in fact pursuing a puppy from this breeder. I sent back an e-mail to her requesting information on parents and more pictures of Burnsey. I will assume this questions are tough for her to answer as I have not heard again from her. I also found she had other ads posted for other breeds so my thoughts are that she breeds a lot. And no this is not meant to say she is a bad breeder as I have no knowledge of her facilities. My spidery senses tell me that if she cannot provide pictures to me of him today and information on his parents the. She is not the breeder for me.

Thank you.

I am located in Kelowna, BC and there are not a lot of breeders out here who have the goldie style in love. I do love the taller lankier type.
 
#26 ·
Good morning,
I am not in fact pursuing a puppy from this breeder. I sent back an e-mail to her requesting information on parents and more pictures of Burnsey. I will assume this questions are tough for her to answer as I have not heard again from her. I also found she had other ads posted for other breeds so my thoughts are that she breeds a lot. And no this is not meant to say she is a bad breeder as I have no knowledge of her facilities. My spidery senses tell me that if she cannot provide pictures to me of him today and information on his parents the. She is not the breeder for me.

Thank you.

I am located in Kelowna, BC and there are not a lot of breeders out here who have the goldie style in love. I do love the taller lankier type.
I am sorry if I misunderstood your first post. It appeared like you were considering a puppy from this breeder.

I definately think you should go with your "spidey" sense, especially if she cannot send you pictures of the pup or answer your questions.

I was, asking if she is the same breeder in Waterdown that is advertising "comfort' retrievers--AKA mini golden retrievers.

I am not sure what you mean by taller lankier type. There was recently a post about a litter in BC that a lot of the forum member were impressed with, unfortunately I cannot find the post about it right now. Maybe another member can help with this. If you are looking for a puppy in BC, I am sure someone on here can help you find one in your area. If you are looking in Ontario, Animation Acres has some nice dogs.
 
#24 ·
There is no "taller, lankier type." There is one type, different colors. To the extent a dog differs from the one type (i.e., the breed standard) it is an inferior dog, with (to my mind) a correspondingly heightened risk of health problems and indicative of a bad breeder.

If you want a taller, lankier Golden, get an Irish Setter.
 
#44 ·
I also prefer them "lanky".



There are in fact two different breed standards, the English and the American.
See this link for details: Golden Retrievers|British English White Cream Golden Retrievers - The English Goldens

The "lankier" type is also my preference in body and head style, ie. less stocky, traditionally with a rounded cranial profile and somewhat more tapered or "conical" muzzle. These goldens also seem to be more readily found in the more coppery to reddish shades than their English counterparts. Both types of goldens are beautiful. A traditional American type, however, would never be confused with an Irish Setter.
 
#25 ·
It's a real shame that a breeder is only out for the money and doesn't care about the pups themselves. Our breeder took the entire litter to a canine cardiologist AND opthomologist at her own expense and had each pup cleared before offering them for sale. She does that each and every time.

I truly hope that Riley fares well and thrives in your loving arms.
 
#27 ·
Hi Millie's Mom,

Sorry if I came across short - not intended. I actually did receive some pictures today of the pup. I have asked some questions to dig deeper and see if there is a pedigree line. I do not believe from his pictures that he is bred with a cocker he looks like a beautiful golden- I will see how she responds. I do wish Riley's Human would look again at the posts.

As for Danas Runs - I think that was a very "short" reply. I infact just lost my tall lanky Golden at 13.5 years in early September this year. He stood taller and from my research this can happen with early neutering. No he was not a setter - he was a goldie through and through. He died as peacefully and gracefully as he lived - in his sleep. I did not have him as a pup, I got him at two and he was the best golden for me. To say that he was inferior is solely your opinion. If I could figure out how to load pictures of him I would.
 
#28 ·
Hi Millie's Mom,

Sorry if I came across short - not intended. I actually did receive some pictures today of the pup. I have asked some questions to dig deeper and see if there is a pedigree line. I do not believe from his pictures that he is bred with a cocker he looks like a beautiful golden- I will see how she responds. I do wish Riley's Human would look again at the posts.

Not to worry, I was more concerned I offended you. I do not know if it is the same person who is breeding the cocker spaniel/ golden crosses. I was asking because a Waterdown, where the breeder is, is about the size of Whistler and it seemed odd there may be more than one less than reputable breeder in a town that small.

After you have posted 15 times, you can private message Riley's Human and ask him/her what you would like.

I am still not sure, what you mean by a lanky golden. Could you post pictures of your previous golden?
 
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