Training Collar - Prong? - Page 4 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mp2005 View Post
My dog didn't like a regular leash, either, when I first put him on one-- so I didn't read his reaction to the gentle leader as much different. But, interesting to hear these different perspectives.
Gotcha. So is it fair to say you would have expected the dog to dislike the prong as well? I'm truly asking, as I'm honestly confused by how many people seem to prefer the gentle leader over the prong, when pretty much every dog I've tried both on has preferred the prong.
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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 09:20 PM
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Chiming in here with our experience with the prong. We put Woody in a prong collar around 7 months at the recommendation of our trainer. We trained on loose leash walking with a flat buckle collar and positive reinforcement since we brought him home, and 90% of he time he was perfect. The other 10% of the time, when he was super excited to see another dog, or the 6 little girls that live next door, or if he knew he was going for a ride in the car, he would practically dislocate my shoulder. I'm just not as exciting as any of those things. What I love about the prong is it's self-correcting. All I need to do is brace and stop, and he corrects himself by pulling. He doesn't like the sensation, turns back to me, and gets praise, a treat, and the opportunity to do it correctly and get where he wants to go. We use the prong about half the time now and he rarely pulls. He sits nicely when it's time to put it on so I don't think he has any negative association with it. I think it's so much kinder than a dozen less effective correction with another type of collar.


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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ktgrok View Post
\is it fair to say you would have expected the dog to dislike the prong as well
Yes, he is a headstrong puppy, so I would probably have expected him to dislike/protest against anything that prevents him from doing exactly what he wants
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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 11:16 AM
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And consciously or not, you just hit on the entire "secret" to training leash manners.
It is THE DOG'S RESPONSIBILITY, not yours, to make sure he walks quietly and calmly. With a self-correcting tool, they quickly realize it and behave so much better.
Edit to add...when you are rehabilitating a dog who has already solidified horrendous leash manners, you take it a step further. You don't just stop and brace yourself. As soon as you catch the dog not paying attention to you, you abruptly turn and briskly walk in a different direction. They quickly learn to pay attention to where you are and where you are heading.
Of course, as soon as they have consistently demonstrated that they "get it", you can allow them a lot more leeway.



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Originally Posted by jdavisryan View Post
Chiming in here with our experience with the prong. We put Woody in a prong collar around 7 months at the recommendation of our trainer. We trained on loose leash walking with a flat buckle collar and positive reinforcement since we brought him home, and 90% of he time he was perfect. The other 10% of the time, when he was super excited to see another dog, or the 6 little girls that live next door, or if he knew he was going for a ride in the car, he would practically dislocate my shoulder. I'm just not as exciting as any of those things. What I love about the prong is it's self-correcting. All I need to do is brace and stop, and he corrects himself by pulling. He doesn't like the sensation, turns back to me, and gets praise, a treat, and the opportunity to do it correctly and get where he wants to go. We use the prong about half the time now and he rarely pulls. He sits nicely when it's time to put it on so I don't think he has any negative association with it. I think it's so much kinder than a dozen less effective correction with another type of collar.



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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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This has been an excellent thread for me and the conversation is wonderful. I love hearing how different things have worked and there are so many tools I can try. I think the key for me will be to see what Maggie responds to in a positive way and keeps her happy little personality I want things to be enjoyable for both of us while keeping her from harm.
I take her to an area where I can have her off leash and she is wonderful. She is doing great on her recalls and stops and checks in with me all along the walk. Thanks again for all the replies. So much helpful information!

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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Iím not a fan of gentle leaders or those harnesses that connect in the front of the chest or head harnesses. I think they are a form of avoidance and lots of dogs never seem to move past it.

A dog needs balance. They need to know there are consequences if they pull. Consequences like, You pull, I stop, I reel you back to my side, I make you sit, then when you are settled, we will try again. This can take awhile to get anywhere. Patience is a virtue. Lots and lots of treats. Personally I try to have my dogs off leash as much as possible. But I live in a place I can get away with it. You have to start in places where there is a lot of control. Like your yard and then gradually increase the distractions. Make sure to talk to your dog. Donít be rigid. Take one step, then reward if they stay by your side. Just work on one step for awhile.

Look on YouTube for Janice Gunn at TNT Kennels and Connie Cleveland at Dog Trainers Workshop.

Also if you get up to Anchorage, sometimes we have trainers come up in the winter for 2 day seminars. It might be a good excuse to head up here, get some training in and do a little shopping. What Alyeska Canine Trainers facebook page for updates on trainers they are bringing in. Alaska Airlines is $100 each way to fly your dog, and they do a great job.
Stacey, I would love to bring Maggie up to Anchorage for a class. Hopefully I can make that work someday.

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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 07:05 PM
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puddles everywhere


"Just me but would never put a prong collar on a 6 month old golden puppy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using a prong for training ... large, adult dogs that have had no training yes, puppies? no."


I generally agree but there is a nice plastic pinch type collar with blunted ends that I have used on puppies at 6 months. Starmark Training collar. I won't use a choke collar ever again, but that is me.
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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 10:00 AM
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gdgli that's good to know, thanks for sharing. Prong collars are a very effective training tool when used correctly. I've been fortunate to never need one if I've started training with a young puppy to adult. But have certainly used them with many adult, out of control dogs that no one took the time to work with before.

Without being physically present and watching how these two work together, all any of us on the forum can do is share an opinion on what works for them as a trainer and experience with what has worked for them. There were so many good suggestions on this thread and hope Jules finds something that works for her and hope her trainer is open to adjusting to the needs of each dog in the class, training isn't a once size fits all thing.

Training has changed over the years and there are so many ways to accomplish the same task and hard to know what method to try when you are starting out. I love to watch accomplished trainers and happy dogs enjoying the sport of obedience. For me... I like to play games and am very positive. But even with positive training once the dog understands the commands you must move from training to doing. So of course there are going to be corrections but sometimes people forget to ALWAYS reward the second after the correction when the dog has done it correctly.

Positive training with no leash is hard work because you must be totally engaged the entire training session and so against the way they did it back in the 60's. No more repetitive practice which to me is very boring, no more leash pop corrections but if this is what you are comfortable with... it works.

Whatever method Jules goes with will be successful if she is consistent. Training is learning how to successfully communicate with your dog. My training has lots of pieces from lots of different trainers and what works on one dog won't necessarily work on another. You have to work with the dog you have and adjust to what works for you and that dog.

Good luck Jules, enjoy your pup and find what you are comfortable doing with your puppy. Focus on what you want the end result to be with each task... find a method you are comfortable doing and be consistent. Good luck and enjoy!!
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