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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 10:06 AM
Arkgold Rocket BN RE
 
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Originally Posted by Megora View Post
I'm debating about the Sat show on 4/20 (GRCA specialty).

The judge on Fri is a european judge and basically have decided to never EVER show to somebody like that ever again. LOL.

Sat is Nancy Liebes who I swear I've shown to her before and she's a green light. Plus I'd show my pup in sweeps...

I just have to do more contemplation about doing either that show or the specialty in Hamilton a month later.

I'm planning on being there, but also might be driving to Arkansas to pick up my puppy that weekend. I was hoping to go and get 6 Triple Q's for Rocket's RACH, but we'll see.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 10:19 AM
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OP I feel your pain... you are not alone. Love all the advice, thanks !! I know that the silly will go with maturity but do enjoy her enthusiasm. She does comply with the command to down but does a little happy dance 1st. Let's hope the judge has a sense of humor :-)

LOL obviously I was talking about my pup but LOVED all the great advice! This has been a wonderful thread and will be using all the great ideas. Thanks!!!

Last edited by puddles everywhere; 02-15-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 01:38 PM
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I literally just LOL’ed at “pretending to be hearing impaired.” Because I’ve asked my 7 month old that occasionally, but she hears the cookie jar being opened so...she’s all good there.

My life currently is dog training. 3x a week in class and then practicing at home. She starts her CGC classes after her one class stops in two weeks. Her recall was not the best (as in her style is to saunter to you at her speed and desire...not a sense of urgency) and ever since this winter dog training extravaganza...she’s barreling towards me in the house and in classes. Last night I had to crouch and step forward to mess her depth perception up because I would’ve probably gone flying.

Her KPT trainer recommended she be enrolled in Rally I. Walking into the first class I was mortified. She wanted to greet every dog, which is what she was used to from KPT. She started at 6 months. She’s done a complete 180 and the dogs are the dogs at Rally. No more pulling to them like the first class. I feel Rally has helped her tremendously. And it’s helped me.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 04:39 PM
where the tails wag
 
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I am going to come from a different angle

Caveats : I am one of those dreaded R+ trainers when it comes to anything other than safety. 2. I have multiple dogs.

Your pup is acting normally but has not yet been taught that working with you is a priviledge and it is his responsibility to give you the engagement you deserve.

If I am home or anywhere I have another dog, and the dog I am trying to train disengages, I simply swap dogs. If I do not have another dog available, I go 'dead' and sit down. Believe it or not, this disengagement on my part helps build a huge desire on their part to keep me engaged!

The above may seem overly simplified but my dogs learn fairly quickly that it is their responsibility to offer engagement. They are heavily rewarded for their efforts through food, play, new tasks and frequent breaks when they engage.

You need to break down each exercise (which includes engagement) by distance, duration and distraction. Without your dogs' mind, no learning can take place so don't even attempt to train if you don't have attention...


Sharon with her golden crew Faelan, Towhee, Brady, Aedan
Finch

Running on silent paws beside me now and forever King , Rowdy and Casey

You add obedience to the game,
not the game to obedience -- Shade Whitesel

Give up your goals,
Focus on the process -- Denise Fenzi

Last edited by Sunrise; 02-15-2019 at 04:45 PM.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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@Sunrise , you are not one of the "dreaded R+" trainers that I referred to in my post, so I sincerely hope I didn't offend you. I have great respect for you and what you do with your dogs. The ones I was talking about are the "I took a course online and got certified, so I know how to train dogs" trainers... The ones that prescribe gentle leaders (nose collars that do in fact hurt the dog) when dogs don't learn how to walk on a leash properly. The ones that might not have even owned a dog before and start teaching puppy classes...

Anyway, I do not lump mostly positive real obedience trainers in with the puppy class scammers. I just had a very bad experience and have spent well over a year undoing the damage with Rocket. In my ignorance, I picked the wrong place to do puppy training.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:20 PM
where the tails wag
 
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No worries

I mentioned that caveat since there are many who doubt the effectiveness of R+ and so can simply keep scrolling if they have those doubts if they see that disclaimer.

But thanks for the confidence ...btw I hate nose collars. I might feel differently if I was disabled or elderly and the choice was a nose collar or no dog, but luckily to date I don't have to make that choice If I remember correctly, it took close to 2 YEARS for my Tohee's muzzle to completely fill back in -- she was returned at 8 months from her original owners who used the thing and was at her breeders for several more months before she came to live with me.

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@Sunrise , you are not one the R+ trainers that I referred to in my post, so I sincerely hope I didn't offend you. I have great respect for you and what you do with your dogs. The ones I was talking about are the "I took a course online and got certified, so I know how to train dogs" trainers... The ones that prescribe gentle leaders (nose collars that do in fact hurt the dog) when dogs don't learn how to walk on a leash properly. The ones that might not have even owned a dog before and start teaching puppy classes...


Sharon with her golden crew Faelan, Towhee, Brady, Aedan
Finch

Running on silent paws beside me now and forever King , Rowdy and Casey

You add obedience to the game,
not the game to obedience -- Shade Whitesel

Give up your goals,
Focus on the process -- Denise Fenzi

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 10:18 PM
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That’s about the age that I start training collars. Simple chain or pinch. What I use really depends on the dog. No head halters, gentle leaders or harnesses.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 08:09 AM
where the tails wag
 
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and just as a further comment on how I train


Generally, at around 8 months old pups will start exerting independence. Your choices are to win your dog over to seeing your view and want to work with you or to start correction to make your dog work with you.


I start at a young age teaching them interactive games which helps to lessen the effect of training time versus play time. I give my dogs plenty of dog time where they can sniff and dig and roll and generally get to know their environment (this is important throughout their life). When in new environments throughout their lives, they are allowed to explore but this is especially important between 8 months and 2 years.



So, when the 8 month 'I dont wanna' phase hits, I actually pull them from classes if they cannot focus and work on basics in slowly increasingly distracted environments. I give them the games and foundation I will need as they mature. Such as touches, spinning, jumping on me, tugging etc in ever increasing distraction. If my dog can choose me over his environment AND take treats, toys, play rough & tumble games etc in a variety of environments I will then restart classes. If they cannot handle that level of distraction, I work away from the group on simple focus games until they are ready ( distance, distraction, duration) to perform simple tasks and take treats & toys. Sometimes they simply sit on my lap and observe (I need to train to a mat but somehow I never seem to get around to it LOL) If your dog will take treats & toys at home but not in a class environment you need to make a choice -- choose distance / distraction parameters or use correction -- or work in quieter environments -- the refusal to take treats is especially indicative of high stress levels.


I am a cross-over trainer and can state that correction versus non-correction methods of training both have their strong (and weak) points. They take about equal amounts of time to train. I started training way back in the 80s so I do know both sides of the equation.


So in summary, your puppy is progressing in a perfectly normal way --- he has to get to know & feel safe in his environment. He needs to choose you over his environment but this is a learned skill. He needs the tools to let you know he is ready to engage (or a solid 'READY' command).


Sharon with her golden crew Faelan, Towhee, Brady, Aedan
Finch

Running on silent paws beside me now and forever King , Rowdy and Casey

You add obedience to the game,
not the game to obedience -- Shade Whitesel

Give up your goals,
Focus on the process -- Denise Fenzi
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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A big thanks to all who have replied with suggestions and your stories of similar experiences. It's so embarrassing to be the one holding the leash as he acts up in class but his behavior is my responsibility so I've really had to examine my own behavior, both at home and in class. I admit I haven't been bringing much enthusiasm either and training has become boring.

Yesterday and this morning, I focused just on fun stuff like treat-toss recalls, hide and seek recalls, and using a tug toy to get him excited. I also ramped my enthusiasm way up. His response was great and he seemed to be having fun again. I'm going to talk to our trainer about what changes I can make in class that won't disrupt her teaching. I'm definitely the least interesting thing in class right now and I need to get his attention back on me. Super high-value, class-only treats are on the list.

We might have a few months off before the next class starts-there are 39 people on the waiting list for Advanced Novice so unless they add more classes I don't think we'll get in. Maybe a little break from classes while we fine-tune our relationship at home? I've re-read this thread multiple times and made notes on new things to try and videos to look at for more ideas. Thanks again for the support and encouragement.


Moses 1991-2004*Tucker 2002-2015*Daisy 2005-2017
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Training Advice?-Update!

Thanks to all for the great suggestions. Woody is doing so much better with our training at home, and he’s doing better in class too. At home I’ve made training all fun and games, shortened the sessions, and started using a tug toy to reward in addition to treats. His response has been great. In class, his trainer (also his breeder) is not engaging with him as much and as a result he’s paying more attention to me.

We’re still struggling with the leash grabbing when he gets bored in class, but last week he didn’t start mouthing until about 45 minutes into class. Progress! I’m not sure how to effectively correct him when he starts mouthing his leash. He seems to think it’s a game. Any suggestions? Such a challenging age but so much fun to see him growing and progressing.
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Moses 1991-2004*Tucker 2002-2015*Daisy 2005-2017
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