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TOTW Puppy Feeding Guidelines

6K views 36 replies 13 participants last post by  DblTrblGolden2 
#1 ·
Hello!

We are new owners of a Golden Retriever (Charlie). We recently weened him off of Kirklands and onto TOTW - Pacific Stream. He is 12 weeks old today and weighs about 13Lbs. According to TOTW, for a puppy between 3-4 months old, we are supposed to feed him 2-3 1/4 cup a day. Does this seem accurate? Just don't want to stunt his growth.

Additionally, what are your thoughts on TOTW? Any issues?

Thanks for your input.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Not a fan of diamond made dog foods and TOTW had been implicated in the diet related DCM issue. There are other foods that are better in my opinion. Foods such as Nature's Variety be Natural line (not the grain free instinct line) Pro Plan large breed adult or puppy. I would just stay away from grain free foods with peas, legumes and sweet potato. Stock with a more meat based foods.
 
#3 ·
I'm not a fan of TOTW but do like Diamond naturals as I fed my boys the Large breed puppy and now the all life stages. TOTW is too expensive to me per serving versus the Naturals that I can get on sale for 32-33 buck a 40 lbs bag and with 2 Goldens food can get a little pricey plus with the DCM issues I'd prefer to stay away from completely grain free.
 
#4 ·
I wouldn’t worry about stunting his growth. You should be more worried about future health issues associated with over-feeding. Read through this article.

https://cvgrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/NEW-Slow-Grow-2017.pdf

The guidelines don’t have to be met exactly (every puppy is different) but I would keep track of his weight and record it at least 1-2 times a week and try to keep his weekly gains somewhat consistent. If you search you can find more opinions on the slow growth plan. Good luck!
 
#8 ·
To my understanding, the problem with the peas/lentils/legumes is that they block the body's ability to absorb the taurine, so adding taurine in wouldn't really be doing anything. That being said, Diamond made a TOTW grain-inclusive line. They didn't release their puppy formula in a grain-inclusive, but I'm fairly certain that all the formulas are AAFCO approved to be an all life stages food - so you could safely feed it to a puppy. Some people don't like ALS foods for a large breed puppy, but my boy did well on an ALS food and I know some well-respected breeders who feed ALS foods to their puppies.

I'm not a big fan of grain-free for puppies anyway, there's really no need to get rid of grains in a puppy's diet. Grain allergies aren't as common as people think anyway.
 
#9 ·
#10 ·
Odins dad, that’s interesting! I’ve not heard that before! I’m also feeding the PPP large breed puppy food and I’ve been giving my pup 4 cups a day with some fish oil on top of the kibble. I wasn’t counting treats so I’m thinking he’s probably getting the equivalent calories that another cup would be. He’s 60lbs at 7months old. Only thing that I was thinking though is what if your dog weighs 90lbs? I wouldn’t think anyone is feeding 9 cups a day.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I suggest never following the suggested feeding guidelines on a bag of dog food..ANY BRAND. They are in the business of selling food and usually overstate the feeding amounts.

Personally I feed the Kirkland Chicken and Rice to my 4 dogs and have been using it for over 25 yrs. My 6 month old Golden eats their Puppy Chicken and Rice food and is thriving. (both are right down the middle of what is THOUGHT to be proper Golden nutrition. I also supplement with raw ground turkey, raw chicken organs, and raw Marrow bones 2-3 times per week. If Purina makes it...I won't use it. If a company promotes corn as being good for your dog, they are mis-leading you. Corn is a cheap filler that dogs have difficulty digesting. Not to mention the sourcing. Statements like sourced from "all over the world" (Purina) is corporate double speak for " The CHEAPEST source" (like China).

While it is prudent to be aware of the DCM problem; it also pays to look at the tiny sampling that was used in this FDA"study". I will never get my information from FB. Who knows who is posting those supposed "facts" on social media. One must examine possible ulterior motives as well. It pays to be cautious as a REAL sampling is taken, but not to go overboard.

You may find this interesting: (look at which companys make more garbage foods..Purina and Mars are standouts!)

Bottom line: Listen to your trusted sources (your VET that hopefully doesn't sell any brand....Hills seems to be the most common that some vets sell) and your own instincts. NOT social media or Dr. Google, when it comes to your pet's health. The same idea of consulting the net for your own health!



You may find this interesting:
 

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#14 ·
From the net..Googled:



"Taste of the Wild Recalls 2019
Even though Diamond Pet Food has had several recalls, Taste of the Wild has had a single recall on May 5, 2012. The recall was linked to a salmonella outbreak in their South Carolina plant. Only dry dog food varieties were deemed to have issues with salmonella.Jul 29, 2019"
====================================================================================================

Kirkland (made by Diamond ,as the posted above chart shows) has had 2 recalls since 2012. One as above and other in the huge melamine scandal prior to that..
 
#16 ·
You do realize that a large majority of the diamond recalls have come from that South Carolina plant.

You should also look up the definition of filler in food interesting. It means an indefinite with no nutritional value. Though corn has protein, fats, carbs and linolenic oils.

Peanut hulls like used in Hill's science diet light foods are an example of filler. It's cellulose only and is used to make the dog feel more full without pulling calories from it.
 
#15 ·
So many options to choose from makes this process quite overwhelming! When we picked Charlie up, he was on Kirkland's. We began weaning him off of that and onto TOTW. We just want to get both of our dogs a high quality food that will be safe to use in the long run. We are leaning towards Purina Pro Plan as I see several users on this forum use it.
 
#17 ·
From The dogfoodadvisor .com (at least he has little or no affiliation with the Dog Food industry)

"
"The Truth About Corn in Dog Foodhttps://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...rn/&display=popup&ref=plugin&src=share_button
Facebook4.7khttps://pinterest.com/pin/create/bu...&description=The Truth About Corn in Dog FoodPin118https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-corn/#shared-counts-emailEmail1
Some insist corn is a nutritious dog food ingredient while others denounce it as a problematic cereal grain.
So, what should you believe? What’s the truth about corn in dog food?
Is it good — or is it bad?
Well, that depends on whom you ask.
In general, anxieties expressed over the use of corn in dog food seem to come from end users — pet owners, breeders and the like.
Yet the pro-corn crowd appears to be dominated by those who have a vested interest in products made with cereal grains.
Myths About Corn
Promoted by the Industry


Makers and sellers of corn-based foods insist the negative stories about corn are simply unsubstantiated myths and rumors spread around the Internet by uninformed consumers.
The truth is, most of the exaggerated claims extolling the virtues of corn actually originate within the pet food industry itself and are unwittingly propagated by naive and well-meaning pet owners.
Here are some of the most enduring myths about corn promoted by makers and sellers of corn-based dog foods.
Myth #1
Corn Has a Low Glycemic Index​


The glycemic index is a way of measuring the tendency of a specific food to raise the blood sugar level of an animal. The higher the index, the greater the risk of an unhealthy rise in blood sugar.
Here are the actual glycemic index figures1 for a few common dog food ingredients…2

  • Corn meal (69)
  • Brown rice (55)
  • Corn (53)
  • Oatmeal (49)
  • Wheat (41)
  • Barley (25)
  • Chicken (0)
  • Beef (0)
Compared to most other ingredients used in making dog food, corn does not have a lower glycemic index.
Myth #2
Corn Does Not Cause Allergies


Supporters of corn-based products like to point out that corn is one of the least allergenic ingredients in dog food.
And according to some studies, that is probably true.
One report3 found the incidence of corn allergy to be only 14% while another4 places corn at just 3% of all allergies.
Yet to be fair, other reports caution readers not to place excessive value on the accuracy of these studies due to the notable difficulty in confirming the precise incidence of food allergies in dogs.5
In any case, although it may not be a common food allergen, corn still cannot be completely excused as a potential cause.
While searching the Internet for these studies, it’s hard not to notice the thousands of legitimate reports by owners, breeders, forums and veterinary sites reporting corn and other cereal grains as a likely cause of their dogs’ allergies.
And then there’s the (very real) issue of cereal grain quality.
In many cases, problems aren’t so much a matter of allergies to the corn itself but rather to undetected contaminants within that grain.
It’s not unusual to find storage mites, their droppings and expired carcasses in bulk lots of feed grains6. And all of these are known to be notable canine allergens.
So, for these reasons, corn must still be considered a reasonable suspect when investigating the cause of any food-related canine allergy.
Myth #3
Corn Is Highly Digestible​


As a whole grain, corn is not easily digestible.
That’s because unless the kernel is first refined into a meal or a flour and then cooked, corn would be very difficult for a dog to digest.
As a matter of fact, corn (and other grains) are only digestible to the extent to which they’re processed.
That’s why even though the grain may be listed as “whole” on a pet food label, it’s nearly always first ground before being cooked into kibble.
And the finer it’s ground, the more digestible corn will be. But also, the higher its glycemic index.
In any case, the industry’s claim that corn is “99% digestible” can be misleading. It’s easy for consumers to interpret that statement to mean corn has a high nutritional value, too.
Unfortunately, that is simply not the case.
Myth #4
Corn Has a High Biological Value​


There’s certainly nothing unique enough about corn’s content that makes it a nutritional standout — nothing that can’t be found in — or converted from — some other ingredient.
Not even protein.
And to those who insist the protein content of a corn kernel has some important biological value we present the following table:7

When it comes to its protein usability, corn has a measurably lower biological value.
Myth #5
Corn Is Rich in Vitamins and Minerals​


Fans of corn also like to claim the grain is high in anti-oxidants and minerals.
High in anti-oxidants and minerals? Compared to what?
Aside from its energy content, corn’s nutritional completeness is certainly not exceptional.
The Nutrient Balance Completeness Score is a measure of how complete a food is with respect to vitamin, mineral and dietary fiber content. The higher the score of a food, the more complete its nutrients.
According to information gathered by NutritionData.com8 from the USDA’s National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, the Completeness Score for corn and a number of other common ingredients are listed here in increasing nutritional value

  • Brown rice (33)
  • Corn (34)
  • Barley (36)
  • Oats (43)
  • Quinoa (45)
  • Wheat (48)
  • Potato (51)
  • Peas (53)
  • Sweet potato (55)
  • Spinach (91)
So, when it comes to judging its vitamin and mineral content, corn is mostly unremarkable.
Myth #6
Corn Is a Superior Source of Energy


Some pet food manufacturers like to point out that corn is a better source of energy – especially for working animals – than meat.
However, science proves this to be yet another myth.
Consumers shouldn’t favor a dog food because “protein” is the first ingredient. They should choose a dog food because meat is the first ingredient.
That’s because meat doesn’t just contain protein – it also contains fat.
Corn is mostly fat free. It’s a carbohydrate.
From a scientific standpoint — and not marketing hype — here’s the actual energy scorecard for each of the 3 macronutrients9 found in all food:

The following caloric information is based upon the USDA’s National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference and published by NutritionData.com10:

As you can see, ounce-for-ounce, science proves meat contains significantly more energy than corn.
The Truth About Corn​


So, why is corn used so abundantly in the manufacture of today’s commercial dog foods?
Well, as you’ve just seen, surely not because it could be considered more nutritious.
Then, could corn be “more natural”?
When you study a dog’s natural ancestral history, you won’t find any mention of corn. That is, until the year 1956. For that was the year indelibly marked by the invention of kibble.
So, why did the introduction of kibble bring with it such a dramatic rise in the use of corn in making dog food?
What suddenly made carbohydrates — like corn, grains and potatoes — so popular with the pet food industry?
The truth is…

  • Carbohydrates are cheap
  • Carbohydrates are vital to the kibbling process
You won’t find corn in commercial dog food because it contributes some unique nutritional property. No, it’s there simply because it supplies cheap calories to the product.
And starchy carbohydrates play a critical role in a process known as gelatinization — a process which is absolutely crucial to the workings of kibble machinery.
Think about it.
How often do you find corn or other cereal grains in a raw or canned dog food?
The Bottom Line​


In a nutshell, corn makes any pet food you find it in less expensive to produce. And it does this by diluting a recipe’s more costly meat ingredients.
And that’s OK.
Because corn doesn’t just save money for manufacturers — it also makes dog food more affordable for pet owners, too.
However, to advertise that corn is included in commercial dog food mainly because of its nutritional benefits is misleading — and a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Footnotes


  1. Based upon human studies, canine values unavailable
  2. Brand-Miller J et al, The Glycemic Index Foundation, “The New Glucose Revolution”, New York (2003), pp.291-296
  3. Fadok V (1994), “Diagnosing and Managing the Food Allergic Dog”, The Compendium 16:12, 1541-1544
  4. Roudebush P, “Ingredients associated with adverse food reactions in dogs and cats”, Adv Small Anim Med Surg 2002;15(9):1-3
  5. Chesney, C.J., 2001, “Systematic review of evidence for the prevalence of food sensitivity in dogs”, Veterinary Record, 148:445–448
  6. Extension Entomologists, North Central States, Federal Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture
  7. Palika, Liz, The Consumers Guide to Dog Food, New York, Howell Book House, 1996
  8. NutritionData.com
  9. Per Modified Atwater Method
  10. NutritionData.com "





To repeat:


"Taste of the Wild Recalls 2019
Even though Diamond Pet Food has had several recalls, Taste of the Wild has had a single recall on May 5, 2012. The recall was linked to a salmonella outbreak in their South Carolina plant. Only dry dog food varieties were deemed to have issues with salmonella.Jul 29, 2019"
================================================== ==================================================

Kirkland (made by Diamond ,as the posted above chart shows) has had 2 recalls since 2012. One as above and other in the huge melamine scandal prior to that..
 
#23 ·
It is very disturbing that there are so many reports on this forum, of Highly Bred and expensive Goldens, dying early deaths from cancer, heart problems and more. I wonder how many of these poor creatures had been eating Purina and Mars foods.
Each to their own.
 
#24 ·
There is a database that tracks which foods have had the most cases. I’m not going to get into a debate over it, but Purina is not a problem. If you are interested in making an educated decision for yourself it only takes a small amount of research thanks to the information the recent studies have provided. We each do the best we can.

FWIW my son has a lab puppy bred by my vet from champion lines. She came home on PPP Lg Breed Puppy. He carries many different lines of food.
 
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#26 ·
So you feed a grain free food right? Because every dog food that uses grain has that same risk. Aflatoxin is a mycotoxin that can be found in just about any grain.

Wait you feed a food made by diamond, the company with the largest ever aflatoxin recall if I remember correctly. Which had one of the largest number of dogs die from their food and second largest recall to the Menu Foods recall of 2007 this century.

Seems disingenuous and even hypocritical.
 
#29 ·
I'd like to ask that no matter what we're arguing over, no one post graphics that can be linked and read on one's own without all the bolding and exclamation points inserted- it's distracting and while I'm sure the posters who do this are passionate they are actually making people unlikely to read their posts.

A nice citation/link is good. All the colors/graphs/additional fonts, punctuation, etc? Not so good.
 
#31 ·
Thanx:
I agree, and only add colors and bold after posting the same information, multiple times; and any information in those posts is either belittled and or totally diverted from by some that don't like it.


I attempt to abide by the rules here, while others troll, PM unsuspecting new forum arrivals, and attempt to skirt any issues that they don't like or agree with. Not to mention name calling and phony accusations (phony as in accusing me (and the other Jeff) of using multiple identities, that were debunked by the moderators here.) And then claim it was only a joke.


Speaking of the other Jeff; I see he gets the same treatment here with the same ole trolling accusations.
 
#32 ·
Unless Charlie has GI issues, slow intro may not be necessary. I change dog foods fairly often- never intro the new one. My dogs do not react to new foods in any negative way.
PPP is the most common food used by dogs who are exhibited in conformation/performance last time I checked that..which says something about the visible result of correct nourishment. It's funny to me how people get invested in a food that they have nothing to do with, other than initially choosing it and it seems to me, sometimes based on hating on big business or being attracted to cult feeding practices (dogs are not humans). I fed raw for probably 25 years, until I had to worry about my father's being exposed to bacteria his frail body could not fight. But even raw- I don't tell puppy people it's a good idea unless they have a degree in something that says they can grasp chemical relationships and are willing to invest the time in doing raw well.
As long as the food has survived the AAFCO feeding trials -and there were at my last check only 5 of those-Purina (not ALL formulas), Science Diet, Royal Canin, Iams and Eukanuba (not all formulas) and the company employs a board certified veterinary nutritionist imo you are good to go. With the DCM worries, it might be that others have gotten on board w the AAFCO/WSAVA guidelines but you'd have to research them individually. Ultimately, it is your dog. I want you to do what you feel is best.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Sorry to respond to my own post but, I didn't mean to imply that I was leaving the forum; just basically moving on from this particular thread...(had a question from a friend and sorry to have given that impression)



There are also members and ex-member of the forum that communicate with each other to keep well informed outside of the public forum, as you are aware.
 
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