why do we always need a trainer? - Page 3 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 06:47 AM
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OP. it seems to me you are using 'a trainer' whether an in-person one or not- your puppy has been biting your arms, refusing to walk on lead without the leash in mouth and barking at you. So when you post issues like these and someone or many answer you, you are actually in many cases getting the advice of a trainer.
Trainers are good to have if they are good trainers. They help train YOU as well as the puppy.

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 07:20 AM
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I would suggest watching these FREE videos, if you are not sure what to do and don't want to hire a pricey trainer. Not saying that trainers are bad, but they are simply not needed by everyone; which seems to be the question posed by the OP. My dogs are pets, and I do not want or need them to be robots!


IMO, This trainer is mostly spot on. Once you get past the obligatory adverts..I think you and your pet(s) will benefit, and if nothing else, they provide a solid base for the average owner.


Also if you own multiple dogs; use caution since the other pack members also train a new arrival..good stuff and BAD stuff too..LOL



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZz...MhGTxffpzgTJlQ
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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism Goldens View Post
OP. it seems to me you are using 'a trainer' whether an in-person one or not- your puppy has been biting your arms, refusing to walk on lead without the leash in mouth and barking at you. So when you post issues like these and someone or many answer you, you are actually in many cases getting the advice of a trainer.
Or you could be getting advice from people who have NO CLUE how to fix the problem you are having.

Or flipside the other way around, a person could be very reluctant to say anything because what people describe and the reality of what's going on can be very DIFFERENT.

One thing I'll never forget was this girl in my neighborhood who would randomly (like 2-3 times a year) take her rottweiler for a walk around the block.

One time she was out walking the same time we were walking our dogs and we could hear her constantly telling her dog to heel. Constantly. High pitched whining and begging and threatening from owner nonstop.

Next thing we know dog went running right past us and heading for the hills. Owner followed her with a broken chain.

My sisters and I were agog because we'd had it drilled in our heads that training tools like a choke chain must NOT be used on a pulling dog outside of training situations. And then we also had it drilled in our heads that you never train your dog at level beyond where he can be successful.

Seeing some of the posts on this forum over the years, I've imagined situations like that when people complain about pulling dogs and switch to different and more powerful (more painful and/or restrictive for the dogs) tools to keep them from pulling.

What people post - it's a dog who pulls constantly and they can't control the dog.

What people don't post - it's a dog put in situations where they will fail and owners not helping the dogs be right.

No matter what people read on forums or videos they watch online, if they don't have somebody seeing what they do and telling them what they are doing wrong based on actual observation - they are going to keep blaming the dog.

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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 08:51 AM
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Yep- you are right. Some of the advice could be coming from people who have ZERO obedience experience!
Never done a CD for example.
My point was just what's the diff in asking on a forum and paying a trainer? You might get paid trainers either way but a paid in person trainer you at least do the work once a week. There's no shame in paying for training advice. Most good trainers GET paid training with every dog they compete with. One might infer that paying for training is a smart move. I know I get every single puppy person to commit to two 5-6 week sessions before 8 mo old (and I hope they do more)

A comment that was made (not referring to that particularly)about an obedient dog being a robot- I guess it's in the beholder's view but to me an obedient dog is a real joy to see- not only is he easy to be around and watch but it is clear he and his person are truly partners.

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-Don Miguel Ruiz

Last edited by Prism Goldens; 10-15-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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I think everyone miss understood my first post.I appreciate all of the suggestions here,I have learned more here than attending a class.I had a 10 year old golden who passed last July.I did take him to training and I think he did better with just him and I (I am the one who was with him all day)He was a wonderful Golden .which is why I got another one in August.I guess it is up to the individual.I did not mean to offend any trainer,it just did not work for me.My puppy is doing well,he has his moments but I can say that I use many tools that were advised here.
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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 10:19 AM
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What is the best way to teach “leave it” or “drop it”?
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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 10:22 AM
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My opinion:
1. Techniques change, a trainer will probably be up to date

2. Having a coach helps
3. Most people can use the help
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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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What is the best way to teach “leave it” or “drop it”?
It's your choice is a great game to play to work on leave it. It's basically taking a temptation, and stopping them from having it until they offer the behavior by relaxing away from it, then take the other hand and give them a treat from the pile. As the dog gets better and better at this, you make it harder and harder. Which is how you end up getting dogs that can balance biscuits on their nose.

Here is a video example of this:

Drop it / Give it / Deliver --- you start with trading for a treat, then you slowly minimize how often you are 'trading' while pairing the phrase. My dogs don't have the "fastest" drop it. But we're all a work in progress.

Here is a video for drop it....

Hecate's Hellhound, Gypsy Magic - "Gypsy"
2/15 - Present
Hi-Tide's Danger Scone, CGC - "Lana"
6/18 - Present
-----------------------------------------------
Waiting at the bridge:
Hecate's Hellhound, Bearer of Mischief, CGC - "Bear"
8/12 - 7/17
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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 12:12 PM
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THANK YOU!! Will work on this today. 😊
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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffscott947 View Post
I would suggest watching these FREE videos, if you are not sure what to do and don't want to hire a pricey trainer. Not saying that trainers are bad, but they are simply not needed by everyone; which seems to be the question posed by the OP. My dogs are pets, and I do not want or need them to be robots!
I think it might come down to difference of philosophy and experience. 100% of first time dog owners should go to formal training classes; because they are brand new to dog ownership and lack the experience and knowledge base. There are a wide variety of training classes available in my large metropolitan area ranging in price from $60 for 8 weeks to $200 for 6 weeks. A training club has much more benefit to a dog owner than a commercial class, imo.

FWIW - no one has every called my dog a robot, but they sure do like to compliment us when we're out practicing. There is beauty in obedience. It is a dance between the handler and the dog. And if that is not your jam, that's totally OK. My dogs are my pets first and foremost. My hobby just happens to include them.

Having worked in rescue, it is disturbing how many dogs are surrendered over common and correctable behavioral problems.
-Pulling on the leash
-Lunging at other dogs/people
-Barking
-Escaping backyards
-Jumping on owners
-Mouthing owners
-Chewing inappropriate items

Formal training classes for first time dog owners would talk about these COMMON problems and how to prevent or correct them, hopefully keeping more dogs in their original homes. It's also a great place for owners to come and feel LESS alone when they are having problems with their dog. Not to mention, the hands on guiding from a trainer and the designated time to practice is invaluable to most people with busy schedules who have a hard time "finding the time" (or inclination) to practice.

Hecate's Hellhound, Gypsy Magic - "Gypsy"
2/15 - Present
Hi-Tide's Danger Scone, CGC - "Lana"
6/18 - Present
-----------------------------------------------
Waiting at the bridge:
Hecate's Hellhound, Bearer of Mischief, CGC - "Bear"
8/12 - 7/17
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