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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GoldenSail View Post
Yes yes we do! But, reality is that there is no perfect dog, so you will probably have to give somewhere and try to improve upon that, right? Say you have a nice working girl, but she has an ugly head, all else is really nice. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater--you have to weigh the good with the bad and decide. Now what if you have a beautiful bitch that lacks the field drive--throw her out? Depends on how much you value that drive and the probability that you can get it back in the next generation, right?

I understand too, that you are pretty fortunate if the first dog/bitch you get is able to finish and pass all clearances and not to take it for granted.
My point here is if you set out buying a bitch puppy to be your foundation bitch, you need to pull off the blinders and be VERY SURE that what you have is of high enough quality to be the keystone of a great breeding program. SO many people buy a bitch and breed her and call her their foundation bitch regardless of her quality. Yeah she might have titles and clearances but does she really ADD or bring something to the table in the breeding program? Or are you having to breed 2, 3, 4 generations down to fix her problems? I absolutely agree that you will not find the perfect dog and every dog has faults to correct in a breeding program. You as the breeder must prioritize them. In my mind your "foundation bitch" should be as close to your ideal as you can manage. Some people WILL get lucky and find that their first try.

Some other thoughts. The first bitch you breed may not be your foundation bitch, but she may produce your foundation bitch. For example, a friend of mine has an 11 year old bitch who she bred four times. She produced a variety of titled dogs, several CHs, a SH, a TDX, etc. She says this is her foundation bitch but actually I believe she PRODUCED her foundation bitch. Out of one of those litters she kept a bitch who was bred a number of times to in turn produce several CHs and performance titled dogs, and from that bitch she has kept and bred now two generations down. The 2nd bitch (daughter of the original) has stamped her look in her breeding program. To me, it is the daughter and not the mother who is the foundation bitch.

Secondly, going back to my original paragraph, I have another friend who has purchased two bitches from another well known breeder. The first bitch she put a lot of performance titles on but the bitch was really not very good looking. She tried desperately to show her in conformation with little results, and she tried breeding her MANY times with NO resulting puppies. She purchased another bitch from the same breeder who looks very similar to the first. She (my friend) is caught between a rock and a hard place -- she wants to breed conformation champions with working titles, but she is starting with a bitch very deficient in the conformation department, and breeding her with pure show line she's getting dogs who neither cut it in the breed ring nor have the aptitude for performance! She now has the daughter of the 2nd bitch and is wondering where to go. I really really wish she would start over with a really nice bitch and take it from there, and breed to something that would perpetuate not only the breed type but the working ability she wants to preserve.

Lastly, there have been, in the past 6 months, FOUR of my friends here in FL who have all bred to the SAME stud dog, who is a very handsome guy, but comical as his only qualification is he is the specials dog of a popular handler. Anyways, so here are FOUR litters from this same stud dog within a 100 mile radius in less than 6 months. Of course they will all keep a bitch for themselves out of their litters. Now my thought is, okay, if you REALLY want to do this right, you four should get together and decide who out of you has the BEST bitch, breed just her to this dog, and you all each keep one. Of course they think this idea is crazy. Of course they like some pocket change from selling pet puppies and of course all think their bitch is the best anyhow. Oh well.

"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Is it a common understanding when a breeder sells you a female pup with you the buyer being sole owner that you will breed at least once to a sire of their choice and give the breeder pick pup of that litter? I don't want to start a breeding program but I do want to have both genders to train and show.
Now I understand why some of the Dams don't have titles. But like Wakemup, I like to see titles on both sides of the line. I want to know that there is performance behind that structure.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 06:44 PM
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k9Design, I found your post filled with information and very educational. Thanks! I like learning about this!
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-25-2011, 12:26 AM
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Thanks k9design a very enlightening post! I guess I was mostly confused by what you call mediocre and how you come to that conclusion, especially since no dog is perfect. I can't believe the friends all using the same dog--crazy!
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