Lines with missing teeth - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Lines with missing teeth

I've heard through the grapevine that some golden retriever lines are having problems with missing teeth. I don't mean falling out, I mean not born with some adult teeth. I've heard to start counting teeth before considering a breeding. This was a complete surprise to me about missing teeth. I know it's a problem in some breeds like Chihuahuas, but never heard of before in golden retrievers. In some breeds missing teeth is a DQ in the show ring.

Anyone with insight on missing teeth and how prevalent this problem is? Is it something that should be added to our breed standard?


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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 06:17 PM
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Interesting.. never heard of this before. My last 3 golden girls had bottom teeth where the two center teeth were slightly in front of the others. Because all the girls were the same way I never gave it much thought. The pup I have now looks like she wore braces or has doggie dentures as they are perfectly straight teeth, top and bottom.
I nave noticed on k9data there are dogs with "full detention" and assumed that meant they were like this pup.. no over crowding?
Is this something people will be getting clearances for?
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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No clearances wouldn't be required. But in the show ring if full dentition is required in the breed standard, then it would be a DQ if the dog is missing any teeth. But that's only a DQ from the show ring.


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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 06:44 PM
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Missing teeth (obvious gaps) is to be considered a serious fault not a DQ. An undershot or overshot bite is a DQ per the standard


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 08:13 PM
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OK what Puddles described is "dropped incisors" where the middle two bottom incisors lean forward. That is VERY COMMON in goldens, and other breeds, and is not addressed in our standard. I would say you find it more common than not. The problem starts when those two lower teeth lean so far out they are now undershot to the upper incisors. Again, this is NOT an underbite, but it's going to make judges think. Don't make judges think.

I have found that the lines with missing teeth are FIELD LINES. Holy crap. If you can find a field trial bred Golden with all it's teeth, good on ya. It is rampant. But is it important? Certainly doesn't stop them from picking up a duck...

I'm sure there are conformation lines that are prone to missing teeth, I do not know them specifically. Luckily I've yet to have a dog with missing teeth. Yet a friend of mine X-rays every puppy at 8 weeks to see if they are missing adult teeth...yes, you can see their adult teeth in their skull at 8 weeks! You do see the occasional show dog with a missing tooth, typically a premolar.

OFA now offers a Dentition "clearance." Basically your vet fills out a form to confirm the dog has all of its teeth, and you mail it into OFA. At first I thought it was a little silly, but now owning a stud dog I could see that it would put to rest any rumor that your dog had missing teeth.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:07 PM
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This may be a little off topic but what's interesting is that some veterinary dentists don't really know what is going on with missing teeth. An owner of a golden with missing teeth (one lower premolar on each side which is what you typically see, I think, in dogs with missing teeth) told me that the veterinary dentist said his teeth probably never came in because he had chewed on an electrical wire as a pup.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:13 PM
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It is considered genetic, and the same gene causes extra teeth. So they say.
I listed Tito as full dentition in OFA not only so the question wouldn't come up, but also in case he cracked or lost any as an adult.



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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:26 PM
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@conformation lines (I have never heard of field lines having the problem either, but I don't know so many people in field who talk about faults the way people in conformation obsess about them LOL) - I've heard that it is pretty random... and not specifically something that shows up in litters if you breed a dog with a missing tooth. And the flipside, there's people who have never had produced a dog with a missing tooth have randomly encountered that down the road with a full known history of several generations with no teeth problems.

I don't think I've heard of "lines" being known for missing teeth.

Um. Have seen dogs with missing teeth in the ring. But random. It's teeth on the side. You can spot it when the dog's panting.

I know people who will not show a dog who is missing a tooth. But others will. They finish the dogs without any problem. Probably depends on the judge and the ability of the handler to distract a judge from noticing something.... the judges are supposed to check the whole mouth, some are less picky than others. Some are regular tooth fairies about mouths and would probably put up a lame dog over a dog with dropped incisors...

^^^ Disclaimer. I've never had a dog missing a tooth prior to my Jacks who lost a tooth while trying to chew through a door during a panic attack (tstorm). I have friends who have suddenly had the problem show up and it's unfair to assume it's in the lines.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9-Design View Post

OFA now offers a Dentition "clearance." Basically your vet fills out a form to confirm the dog has all of its teeth, and you mail it into OFA. At first I thought it was a little silly, but now owning a stud dog I could see that it would put to rest any rumor that your dog had missing teeth.
I just recently noticed this clearance and was wondering about it.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 03:31 AM
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In my experience, missing teeth (typically a premolar) have been seen in certain lines when the COI is allowed to get too high. Get the COI back down to a reasonable level and the missing teeth problem goes away.

In other words if the COI gets too high, undesired genetic flaws can be expressed. This is true for all lines of Golden Retriever.

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