Help evaluating 2 English Golden pedigrees - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Help evaluating 2 English Golden pedigrees

I'm new to the forum, and I'm trying to get some input on possible puppies. We lost our American Golden a few weeks ago, and have finally put our grief into it's place, and are now looking for a new puppy. I'm very interested in the English Golden (actually prefer that they NOT be white, but with these pairs not likely...), and have had initial contacts with two local hobby breeders that seem to have excellent breedings based on the little I know about pedigrees. For both breeders, we are unlikely to get pick of litter, so I'm hoping I can get some feedback from experts about overall strength of the breeding. There is a difference between breeders as far as price and convenience for meeting. We are planning on meeting each breeder before whelping to meet parents, see the facility, and chat with the breeder before we make a choice. We're both retired but active, and are looking for "therapy dog" temperament in addition some interest in active pursuits. All parents appear to have data on the k9data site.

Would there be any reason to choose either of the following breedings? How would you make the call?

1: Pedigree: Jun.CH.Rus,CH.Rus Laskana Gloriya Gold X Pedigree: JCH SRB Babelsbergi Cheese Cake

2: Pedigree: Thevenet Memorias De America X Pedigree: Crarae Tanglewood EZ4U2NV

thanks so much!!

Dan
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 05:21 PM
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Babelsbergi Cheese Cake - the only easily verifiable clearance is an Eye clearance. The others seem to have been done before he came to America. He also has a littermate who didn't pass OFA hips, she got a Mild Unilateral rating. He is a Carrier for Ichthyosis.

Laskana Gloriya Gold - again, the only easily verifiable clearance is an Eye clearance. There is no mention of a Heart Clearance or an Ichthyosis test.


Crarae Tanglewood EZ4U2NV - all clearances look good.

Thevenet Memorias De America - cardiac clearance done by a practitioner. This should ideally be done by a cardiologist. She has an outdated CERF clearance (last done in 2009). She has an Elbow clearance listed on OFA but no hip clearance. The owners' website lists her as having a BVA hip clearance. She has no Ichthyosis testing listed but if she is being bred to a clear dog, at worst the pups will be Carriers and will never show the disorder themselves. She has one offspring listed on OFA as having an Elbow clearance but no final hip clearance is listed. D&D Koa Kanunu

What you want to look for in any breeding is:

Hip and Elbow clearances - preferably from OFA because they are most easily verifiable. If the breeders use BVA (as a lot of English type breeders do), for hips, you want to see copies of the report with 2 fairly even scores that add up to somewhere between 0 and 10. (I got these numbers from a BVA document. Technically, it's 0-4 - Perfect or Near perfect. 5-10 - borderline changes that are unlikely to worsen with age. Someone with more experience than I have with BVA may have a different opinion on this.) For elbows, two scores of 0 are passing.

Current eye clearance - either through CERF or through OFA. Some people do these clearances but do not send in the paperwork. That's okay, just ask to see a copy of the report from the Ophthalmologist .

Heart clearance - preferably done by a cardiologist because cardiologists receive specialized training that may allow them to hear things a regular vet cannot.

Those are the big four. There are a few others but one of the most important for the English-type dogs is the Ichthyosis test. Preferably, the breeding is being done between two clear dogs but a clear to a carrier or an affected may be acceptable. Breedings between a carrier and a carrier or a carrier to an affected should be questioned because the pups have a greater chance of being affected.

Always ask for copies of the clearances - don't just take their word for it. Some people may point you to the OFA website. That works too as long as all of the clearances are listed there.

Hopefully that isn't too much information for you! Good luck!

Last edited by ragtym; 07-24-2013 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Clarify some wording
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for the information! Just askin' but... Is there any reason to question European health clearances? Any idea how much an Ichthyosis test costs? Is it reasonable to ask for one to be done? (We are looking for a pet, not a breeder).

Thanks again,

Dan
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 03:08 AM
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Firstly the average hip score in goldens in the UK is around 19, gradually it is reducing and the recent ones average about 14 so personally I wouldn't worry about any score under 20
BVA recommends that dogs with an elbow score of 0 or 1 are OK to breed from. I personally don't know of any UK breeders doing icythiosis test (but am prepared to be proved wrong as I have not been showing regularly this year)but many are DNA tested for PRA and they should have an eye certificate annually in addition to this. Hearts are not tested routinely but obviously are checked at annual vaccination by vets. Many of the dogs in pedigrees are European dogs not British dogs with some Scandinavian breeding. Annef

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Annef, would you have any concerns about a pup from the first breeding (original post)? From the little I know, the pedigrees of both parents appears quite impressive. Are there any questions I should ask the breeder if I'm given the chance to purchase a female pet? Thanks for the input from the English point of view!
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 04:45 PM
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In the US, if you are following the GRCA Code of Ethics, then the clearances should be either OFA or Penn Hip... For hips...

Janice and The Celebration Gang -
"Samantha, George, Tiki, Emily, Mick and Basil" Gone but not forgotten, Sally(Windjammer's Ima Country Girl CDX CGC), Laney(Mandell Marlenes Celebration UD RA CGC), and Cookie(Starseeker's Kissmas Cookie CDX RE CGC).
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 02:44 AM
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I would ask why a dog that is a champion has been exported to another country. Why they are breeding in the first place and why did they chose this dog to use? I know very little of the Russian breeding but know many of the dogs behind the 5 generations.
The UK/European clearances are usually completed after 1 year but some dogs are done later. The hip X-rays I have seen done in Europe compare well with the UK scheme and seem comparable in grading but as one person has commented if the dog is born in the US as a puppy it should have US clearances.
Personally I hate the trade in adult dogs being sold just for breeding and that is all they are sold for, as they do not meet the US standard which is different to ours and the FCI one.
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