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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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"Line Breeding" Question

Ok this is not a golden retriever and not really a 'line' breeding but I don't know what the "issues" might be.

I have a friend who emailed me about a litter of Lab pups. I have a friend who is starting her search. The pedigree on the mom and dad of the pups is VERY good, with one exception. The dad is the son of the mom from a litter two years ago. OOPS!!!! That was a carefully planned litter with a really nice sire. The breeder held back one male, as he was a handful and had to find the right home for him. I guess she kept him and well had an oops.

What might be the problem about this breeding? How close it is I mean. The stud is not quite 2 yet, has prelims on hips as good, CNM and EIC clear. That part is not concerning me as much as the possibility of the pups growing a second head or something. Seriously what should the concerns be?

I am hoping she is not asking much money at all for these pups since it was unplanned. I did ask if she will still honor her two year guarantee. What are the thoughts of seasoned breeders here? Nope an OOPS should not happened but it did. Are the pups something to be avoided?

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
Ok this is not a golden retriever and not really a 'line' breeding but I don't know what the "issues" might be.

I have a friend who emailed me about a litter of Lab pups. I have a friend who is starting her search. The pedigree on the mom and dad of the pups is VERY good, with one exception. The dad is the son of the mom from a litter two years ago. OOPS!!!! That was a carefully planned litter with a really nice sire. The breeder held back one male, as he was a handful and had to find the right home for him. I guess she kept him and well had an oops.

What might be the problem about this breeding? How close it is I mean. The stud is not quite 2 yet, has prelims on hips as good, CNM and EIC clear. That part is not concerning me as much as the possibility of the pups growing a second head or something. Seriously what should the concerns be?

I am hoping she is not asking much money at all for these pups since it was unplanned. I did ask if she will still honor her two year guarantee. What are the thoughts of seasoned breeders here? Nope an OOPS should not happened but it did. Are the pups something to be avoided?

This is definitely inbreeding. Not a breeding I would intentionally make, but it's been done before and with mixed results.
A friend of mine had an accidental mother to son breeding (PWD's). She was very responsible and they were all sold to people with full disclosure. They were DROP DEAD GORGEOUS, and all grew up to pass all required clearances, temperaments were sound, and they were incredible working dogs.
Another mother to son breeding that I know of was an attempt to reproduce that son - a VERY famous Golden years ago. That didn't turn out so well. None of them had two heads or anything () but frankly, as the son was already producing some problems, they occurred in the puppies. (missing teeth, retained testes, and some temperament concerns).

I wouldn't necessarily avoid puppies from this litter...

Hahaha
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 11:22 AM
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You will not know for sure as only time will tell. The only thing I will say is that in addition to all the "good" traits that are doubled up on betwenn mom and son SO are the BAD traits. And that is where the big concerns should be. And it is not just those that have expressed themselves in the parents but could be back several generations. I am sorry this is not of much help.

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 11:53 AM
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How healthy are the lines? Any skeletons in the closet you are worried?
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 02:52 PM
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Have her check back as far as she can in that line to see if there were problems.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 07:26 PM
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Things like cryptorchdism might rear its head as it is a sex dependent recessive gene. Obviously, there are other things as well.... You will find out about all of the recessive genes there are....

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I don't know much about the pedigrees, as they are not using K9 Data. I do know the studs father is a NICE performance lab stud. He comes from a strong line of agility labs, and is sought after breeding. He is the only reason I am asking questions still.

My friend wants a small male lab. Limecreek Code of Honor "Cody" is not big. His full brother Cooper just got MACH 9 and is under 50# which would be what my friend would LOVE. Blue the stud pup, is 21 1/2 inches, and 50#. So we could have small genes.

The pups would have to be cheap for me to consider. Just my opinion I would want just the cost of the basic puppy care. No stud fee involved and no clearances or titles yet. The father is an attractive dog, better than the mom who is not bad, just the baby is better.

Ann
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