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Changing to Raw Diet or new food?

7K views 33 replies 11 participants last post by  Maggie'sVoice 
#1 ·
I am new to these forums so hello! I am considering switching my dog over to a raw diet. I am not sure whether it is a good idea or a bad idea and my vet does not seem to want to even talk about it.

My pup is 11 months and not neutered. The vet told us to switch him to an industry approved food at 6 months so he is on Science Diet adult large breed. I have seen Royal Canine for Goldens which has intrigued me, as well as the raw diet.

What do you feed your golden? Do you have any recommendations? Just curious!

Thank you in advance! :laugh:
 
#2 ·
I personally would not do a raw diet without speaking to a nutritionist before hand. Are you aware of the studies linking DCM in Golden's to taurine deficiency from grain free diets? Are you having issues on the Science Diet? I didn't personally have good luck with the Royal Canine, but many people do. My choices tend to be Purina Pro Plan, Science Diet, Royal Canine, Eukanuba.... I'm sure there's one I've missed.

I've spoken to the nutritionist at Purina, and Royal Canine and found them to be very knowledgeable and helpful if you have specific questions.

There is a FB group Taurine Deficiency in Golden Retrievers that has a ton of information if you would like more.

I know everyone has opinions on what to feed. I have one guy on an RX diet by Purina, and another on the Purina Pro Plan Sport 30/20. My dogs are extremely active hence the Sport 30/20.
 
#3 ·
I do a raw diets with my dog. I actually supplement with it. I do Kibble and I do Nature's Variety Instinct raw. They have Medallions in 1oz and patties in 4oz. It takes 2 patties a meal or I do a patty with kibble or I do kibble with 1 or 2 medallions in it. I have knowledge better than most about canine nutrition and I still would never attempt a raw diet that I would make my own, especially a recipe you get online. I only do commercially prepared diets where I know it's been tested pathogen free and safe to be fed raw and balanced with a guaranteed analysis.



But the benefits or the raw diet are FAR superior then any kibble and any of those refrigerated foods like pet fresh which is pasteurized. You should also never have a taurine deficiency since you're feeding raw meat. Taurine is a meat protein based amino acid that gets destroyed in the cooking process. That is why they have to add it back into kibble. But raw uncooked meat is bursting with available taurine.



Raw diets are infinitely better for kidney health, dental, balancing the gut with good bacteria, and digestion. Plus you get maximum nutrition so you feed less volume which should help guard against bloat/gastric torsion.


Just do some reading on raw diets but I really warn against making your own.
 
#4 ·
Thank you, @Maggie'sVoice and @DblTrblGolden2 for the replies!

My golden isn't having any issues on Science Diet, but I have heard of the benefits of raw and wanted to research more. We are very strongly against a grain-free diet per our veterinarian.

I appreciate the advice on the duo of kibbles and raw! I was thinking that if I were to switch my guy over in that direction, I would definitely use a commercially prepared diet. I have seen several of them through instagram and would obviously research further.
 
#5 ·
Thank you, @Maggie'sVoice and @DblTrblGolden2 for the replies!

My golden isn't having any issues on Science Diet, but I have heard of the benefits of raw and wanted to research more. We are very strongly against a grain-free diet per our veterinarian.

I appreciate the advice on the duo of kibbles and raw! I was thinking that if I were to switch my guy over in that direction, I would definitely use a commercially prepared diet. I have seen several of them through instagram and would obviously research further.

Just some info... The guy that formulated Nature's Variety Instinct Raw left Nature's Variety and he's the one that formulated Nature's Logic Raw food. Same guy but different. One has a lot of ingredients and the other , Nature's logic is a more limited number of ingredients.
 
#7 ·
Some benefits...



One is the natural enzymes on the meat that has not been cooked away. They will break down all the plaque and tartar on teh teeth and get in between teeth too, like flossing. Those same enzymes will travel down to the stomach and help seed the gut with good bacteria (balances the gut. Both help with bad breath as bad breath comes from plaque and tartar build up and a bad gut.


Two... maximum nutrition. when you cook food you destroy a lot of nutrients. This is the reason they add a vitamin and mineral package to the food, to re-balance it. With this being said, certain vitamins can be toxic in excess. Like Vitamin A. to much is toxic, but a raw carrot, the dog will take the beta carotene and create it's own vitamin A as it needs it and discards the rest, no excesses.anything cook is altered and anything synthetic like vitamins forces the body to try to absorb it.



Three... You aren't feeding a kibble that is just 10% moisture. Feeding raw food at 65-75% moisture means you will get healthier kidneys. Dry food absorbs a lot of the water your dog drinks. This in turn pulls the water through the colon and not let it pass to the kidneys to help keep them flushes. Your dog will probably drink less and go to the bathroom as much or a little more, this being healthier for the kidneys.


Four... at least up until a couple years ago, at that point there still was no known or reported cases of a raw diet killing dogs whereas with kibble, that certainly can not be said.


I would feed strictly raw if it wasn't going to cost me over $100 a month to feed so I supplement it with a high quality kibble. Though I may try to see if the bank account can handle it over a couple months and go from there.
 
#11 ·
I am definitely leaning towards switching him over to 100% raw. We are in talks with a nutritionist at the moment, but the owner of our pup's school said that he has been raw feeding his 6 pups for 12 years! I am very interested about the vasectomy as well! Our pup is 11 months and the vet has wanted to neuter him at 6.. we pushed out to 12.. and now I am thinking about pushing out further. Why did you choose it? Thank you so much!
 
#15 ·
I also supplemented with Instinct raw medallions with Callie. It was 1 of her 3 meals where the other 2 were grain free kibble. Still don't know the cause of her passing last July but the ER vet suspected was blood clot and not heart related. That being said and all the DCM research, I am planning on feeding my new puppy who is 8 weeks old Purina Pro Plan for now and when she is older, will start to supplement with raw but commercial raw as it is treated to avoid bacteria. I also plan to consult a board-certified nutritionist to have a diet made for her bc I don't like the idea of the 4 big food companies that are recommended. That will be down the line though as I want to keep her on what the breeder has recommended. I also add warm water to her kibble to hydrate it as kibble is hard on the kidneys as Maggie's Voice discussed. I add enough to make the food float. If your dog is not used to this, add warm water in small amounts over time increasing it.
 
#16 ·
My education about pet food started with a subscription to The Whole Dog Journal. I've been subscribing to this monthly magazine for almost 20 years now and, although they have a definite "natural" bent, I've found them to be very balanced and science-based as well, and perfectly open to "traditional" ideas as an option to consider. I highly recommend it if you are just starting down the road of information about raw diets, holistic health care, positive training, etc. They have a yearly "recommended dog foods" issue that many consider the gold standard for quality dog foods (you have to be a subscriber to see the most recent list, but a Google search should bring up past years' lists). I also highly recommend checking out a website called "Dog Aware" - lots of really good health and nutrition information there!

FWIW I've been feeding my guys raw for about 15 years now. Like Eric, I have chosen to spend the money to purchase commercially prepared raw diets (Bravo, Nature's Variety, Stella and Chewy's, and Primal among others) just to be sure they are balanced. When money gets tight, I'll substitute in a good quality, all natural kibble for some of the raw. I used to use one of the many high-quality grain-free foods before the DCM scare, but I'm feeding some Fromm Gold right now (which has grains) until they figure out what's causing the DCM.

If you are just starting out, you can also start by feeding the best quality kibble you can and adding in some healthy people food in moderation (canned mackerel, lean cooked meats, pureed veggies, eggs, etc.). That Dog Aware site I mentioned has an article about adding fresh food to a kibble diet. Every little bit helps!

For now, I'd say just keep reading and educating yourself. If nothing else, learning to read a dog food label, and knowing what ingredients may not be the best choice for your dog, is a great start!
 
#17 ·
My education about pet food started with a subscription to The Whole Dog Journal. I've been subscribing to this monthly magazine for almost 20 years now and, although they have a definite "natural" bent, I've found them to be very balanced and science-based as well, and perfectly open to "traditional" ideas as an option to consider. I highly recommend it if you are just starting down the road of information about raw diets, holistic health care, positive training, etc. They have a yearly "recommended dog foods" issue that many consider the gold standard for quality dog foods (you have to be a subscriber to see the most recent list, but a Google search should bring up past years' lists). I also highly recommend checking out a website called "Dog Aware" - lots of really good health and nutrition information there!

FWIW I've been feeding my guys raw for about 15 years now. Like Eric, I have chosen to spend the money to purchase commercially prepared raw diets (Bravo, Nature's Variety, Stella and Chewy's, and Primal among others) just to be sure they are balanced. When money gets tight, I'll substitute in a good quality, all natural kibble for some of the raw. I used to use one of the many high-quality grain-free foods before the DCM scare, but I'm feeding some Fromm Gold right now (which has grains) until they figure out what's causing the DCM.

If you are just starting out, you can also start by feeding the best quality kibble you can and adding in some healthy people food in moderation (canned mackerel, lean cooked meats, pureed veggies, eggs, etc.). That Dog Aware site I mentioned has an article about adding fresh food to a kibble diet. Every little bit helps!

For now, I'd say just keep reading and educating yourself. If nothing else, learning to read a dog food label, and knowing what ingredients may not be the best choice for your dog, is a great start!

All good information but I have found the Whole Dog Journal to be bit political. It seems they are swayed and not sure why!? Nothing will change in formula and list or recommended foods is different from another. I mean some foods that were 1 and 2 would totally missing from the next list with no changes in any of the foods at all. They can have some good source material but I don't know if I'd ever trust their food evaluations.
 
#22 ·
I feed my 4 year old Golden Retriever and his 10 year old Corgi brother raw. I purchase a ground raw from a local co-op. It's cheaper that way. I have had my Golden Retriever's taurine tested and it was fine. He has also had an echocardiogram. My boys get slices of chicken hearts (frozen) as treats to keep their taurine levels up.

By the way, my Golden is not neutered. I was planning on getting him a vasectomy at 2 years of age but, since there is no medical reason to do it, and he's never around female dogs, he is intact. Following is information from the Cuyahoga Valley Golden Retriever club regarding this: https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...cvgrc.org/wp-content/uploads...-to-Neuter.pdf
 
#24 ·
Thank you all so much for your feedback! We are in the process of getting our ducks in a row and will start our pup on raw next Wednesday. We received our nutrition plan and are in the process of gathering everything! I am excited to see where that leads us! I hope we are doing the best for our guy! I appreciate all your help!
 
#25 ·
Figured I would circle back from 3 months ago!

We switched our now 14 month old to raw and we couldn't be happier with it. He is happier and healthier. The first thing that we noticed was that he did not struggle to poop anymore and he now poops like a cat. He has dropped from 75 to 66 pounds of muscle and you can tell how much better he feels, especially when he exercises. And of course his coat looks amazing. He goes absolutely bonkers for the food and we are just so happy he is doing so well with it!

Since starting him, we also added a second boy to our family and we decided to feed him Royal Canin and will be switching him to raw around 1 year!

Thanks again for all your help!
 
#27 ·
I wouldn’t recommend feeding both raw and kibble at the same time. I tried feeding kibble in the morning and raw in the night, but digesting two different consistencies messed with a dogs system. I personally feed Misty a homemade raw diet, but I did tons of research and spoke to an expert about it. I recommend starting with a commercial raw food, my favourite is Tollden Farms. I also switch between commercial and homemade raw.
 
#29 ·
Regarding raw diets: Don't forget that dogs can get salmonella from raw poultry, just like people. Unless you are a nutritionist, I recommend using a high quality food from an established company like Purina, etc. These companies have experts in nutrition and extensive research labs that have been testing pet foods for many years. I stay away from "boutique" pet food companies that produce foods with ingredients that may sound appetizing to me but are of questionable value to my dogs. Also, it is very difficult to find out if and where some of these companies are doing any research on animal nutrition beyond basic quality control checks of the ingredients they are using. In fact, it is sometimes difficult to determine where exactly some of these foods are being manufactured.
If you are concerned about your dog's diet, I recommend doing your research, starting with your vet, checking out foods from well-established companies who publish their research results in professional journals, and reading the ingredients lists on the packages, and then making your choice. Good luck!
 
#30 ·
In truth it's hard for dogs to get salmonella from eating raw food. A dogs system is completely the opposite of a persons. They are equipped to eat carron (dead, rooting flesh). Food in a dogs system is in the stomach for 4-5 hours (for people it's maybe an hour on average) so the stomach acids kill the bacteria. The real reason for recalls for salmonella is the risk for people more than the dogs, especially kids and older people.
 
#31 ·
Dear Maggie's Voice,

According to my vet, dogs are at risk for salmonella from raw poultry. I had a puppy years ago who died from salmonella a couple days after getting her shots. It was a very painful death. The necropsy showed salmonella. She had no other problems that could be detected. The rest of the litter was fine. The vet I took the litter to for shots had a large dead Iguana in the office on one of the exam tables. Also, they had carpeting in the office and exam rooms, which at the time I didn't think could be a very good idea. Did the vet wash his hands before examining my puppies? I don't know, but needless to say, I changed vets.
The risk for getting salmonella from a raw diet may be small, but why take the risk? I think the best source for information on diets and Salmonella in dogs would be a good vet.
 
#32 ·
The Raw diets that are commercially prepared are tested before, during and after the freezing process. This is why I don't go buy raw meats from my local store and feed it raw to my dogs. They are handled properly from raw feeding. The FDA I think expects about 30% of raw chicken to be contaminated with salmonella. They expect that meat to be cooked to a point it kills the bacteria.



You will hear of people driving an hour or 2 to meet a guy with a meat truck to buy raw chicken like feet, backs, breast meat etc just to save money feeding raw. These are the types of things I stay away from (local stores as well) and those are ways to have the food you feed your dogs to have a high level of contamination.


The risk with a commercially prepared raw diet is no greater than feeding a kibble for risk of salmonella. In fact I know as of a couple years ago (haven't checked lately) that there were no reported/confirmed cases of dogs dying from a raw diet but there have been hundreds and thousands of dogs that died from kibble.


The point about food and the vet. Vets only receive about 2 credit hours on nutrition in vet school and it's on farm animals (Horses, pigs, etc) and not on dogs/cats. So unless a vet really takes it upon themselves to learn about dog and cat nutrition after then fact, they are really behind the 8 ball on this. I would never expect a vet to be very up on dog.cat nutrition on a whole. I've seen vets just say all dogs should be fed once a day or a lab needs to eat 4 cups a day no matter what. Well, if 1 food has 350 kcals/cup and another has 550 kcals/cup you cant feed 4 cups to a higher calorie food. They don't even get this type of thing a lot of times. Just like our own Dr's, ask a lot of questions and learn for yourself and you will spot inaccuracies.



You certainly should do what you feel is right for you and your dog. What I do for my dogs isn't what everyone will do and there are things people do with there dogs that I would never do in a thousands years. There is never 1 right way and all else is the wrong way. But Raw foods fed the right way is just as safe as kibble and maybe safer.
 
#34 ·
I'm not familiar with that food but I mentioned in a different thread that I'm not a fan of small regional dog food makers like the performance raw food that just had the recall.

The issue with the really small regional companies is the possible lack of quality control for pathogens and imbalances. Hence if you look at the recalls for the raw foods, it's almost always the regional small companies. I get from the FDA every recall notice an any dog food or dog treats and it's virtually all the regional guys. That's why I like the bigger guys like bravo, Nature's Variety it even nature's logic. To a degree.
 
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