Study on Low Taurine, Grain Free Foods and DCM in Goldens - Page 37 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #361 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Caseykathie View Post
The FDA and UC Davis in July, 2018 published warnings about a correlation between legumes and Cardiomyopathy in Golden Retrievers. It is not the absence of grains per se, it is the use of legumes, especially peas and pea protein, as a starch to hold the kibble together and as a protein source. Those 30/20 working dog kibbles (Sport) are one of the only commercially available brands that do not use any legumes. But they are high in carbohydrates, as is most commercial kibble.

There are plenty of commercially available diets without legumes. Also, the reason for the grain free being singled out so much is that the vast majority of grain free foods have the legumes and not as many foods that are grain inclusive have the legumes. So the recommendation is to pay extra attention to the grain free diets (not all are the issue but a lot) since the dogs coming up with the DCM are dogs on grain free foods.

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post #362 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Maggie'sVoice View Post
There are plenty of commercially available diets without legumes. Also, the reason for the grain free being singled out so much is that the vast majority of grain free foods have the legumes and not as many foods that are grain inclusive have the legumes. So the recommendation is to pay extra attention to the grain free diets (not all are the issue but a lot) since the dogs coming up with the DCM are dogs on grain free foods.
Could you name some of those foods that do not have legumes of any sort? Thank you.
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post #363 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 07:01 AM
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All of these diets I'm talking about are the companies non grain free or original formulas. Science Diet, Nutrisource, Fromm, Eukanuba, Iams, Farmina (including the low grain formulas), Nature's logic,Royal Canin, Verus, Merrick Whole Earth and Pro Plan. All of these have formulas or entire lines of food without any legumes.



These are just off the top of my head without looking.

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post #364 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Caseykathie View Post
Could you name some of those foods that do not have legumes of any sort? Thank you.

Also, I feed a food with a legume in it. It's called Precise Holistic Adult Large Breed food and I fed the same food in Large Breed Puppy till 10 months. It has 1 pea ingredient (the 17th ingredient) and had my dogs whole blood taurine level tested at UC Davis and it came back 363. The issue here is diet related low taurine causing DCM. So you don't have to be legume free, just keep it to 1 or 2 legumes and keep them out of the top 10 ingredients. And if you're worried, for $75 you can have your dogs blood drawn after you've been on a food for 4-6 months have it sent into UC Davis and see if they are doing well on it taurine wise. My dogs results came back in like 9 or 10 days.

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post #365 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:48 AM
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What Should We Be Feeding Our Pet?

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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Some of whose best of the best lists?
What Should We Be Feeding Our Pet?

I am one of many pet owners who are deeply saddened at the loss of their pet to nutritional deficiencies of taurine or diet induced Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM). We find we are blaming ourselves for feeding a ‘BEG’ diet to our loved pet, as we were thinking we were feeding the ‘best.’ My Golden was not even five years old when she was diagnosed with DCM and passed just a day later. She was being fed a high priced, and well marketed BEG diet. After a time, I now have another Golden, and am doing what I can to educate myself and to feed her the best kibble, based on up to date qualified knowledge on this serious issue affecting many breeds.

“BEG” diet are ‘suspect’ diets. BEG stands for Boutique Exotic ingredient, and Grain-free.

 Boutique - A boutique diet is one made by a pet food manufacturer who does not employ an appropriately qualified team of experts to study and formulate their diets. These companies often rely on marketing trends rather than testing and nutritional research.
 Exotic Ingredients- These are ingredients not classically found in pet foods and consist of animal proteins such as kangaroo, buffalo/bison, ostrich, alligator, duck, lamb, salmon, venison, and rabbit.
 Grain-free: These are diets that are free of ingredients such as barley, buckwheat, corn, oats, quinoa, and rice. More recently, these traditional grains have been replaced with pulse ingredients (legume seeds such as peas, lentils, various beans and chickpeas) and it is these pulse ingredients that are currently thought to be a major contributor to the development of NM-DCM.

The best thing one can do is to buy your dog food from a company that meets criteria/guidelines from both:

(1) AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials)
and
(2) WSAVA (WSAVA's is a global veterinary community, with a primary purpose to advance the quality and availability of small animal medicine and surgery, creating a unified standard of care for the benefit of animals and humankind.”) criteria.

https://www.wsava.org/WSAVA/media/Ar...r-your-Pet.pdf

It is recommended that your food company employ at least one full-time nutritionist(which must be a PhD or boarded DVM nutritionist), that all the company’s diets are formulated by nutritionists at these levels of expertise, and that the company not release a formula without testing and trialing that formula using the feed trial protocols established by the AAFCO. In other words, no diet is sold until it proves that it nourishes real dogs, under real conditions, rather than just having the right nutritional math but never having been tested. The company should do a huge amount of quality testing, and every batch coming into the plant should be tested. The company should manufacture the diet themselves, so it can control the ingredients and quality; it should not just send a recipe and a bag label design to a plant that makes food for many companies. And the company should subject its diets to peer-reviewed scientific research and be able to back up any of its claims with data that is available to the public. This is the unanimous assessment of cardiologist and nutritionists who uncovered the taurine-DCM relationship.

There are four US dog food brands that we know satisfy these criteria:
Purina (most formulas)
Hills (Science Diet)
Royal Canin
Eukanuba

A lot of Dog Food brands have done an excellent job marketing their kibble and their delicious human-appealing ingredient words, and a pretty poor job making sure that they’re nourishing our dogs. It is difficult to find even a single lots-o-stars brand that employs a full-time nutritionist, let alone meets the other criteria. So, you’ll find that when it comes to talking about lower-risk foods, the same companies are going to get mentioned a lot - Purina (most formulas), Hills (Science Diet), Royal Canin, and Eukanuba
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post #366 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 11:56 AM
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All very true for the most part. The thing is that all food will have an AAFCO statement as I believe just sit all States require it and each sku to be registered with the department of agriculture in the state in order to sell the food.

So the only thing you need to look at work the AAFCO label is whether or not it says if it was "formulated to meet the nutritional requirements set by AAFCO" of if it says "animal feed tests substantiate" which means they did feed trials before going to market.

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post #367 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 08:31 AM
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I just had Maggie's heart clearance done yesterday and was talking to the cardiologist. I didn't even ask him before he was talking about the grain free foods and the DCM issue. I told him I was fairly up in it and part of the closed fb group.

The interesting thing he said was about the grain free foods. He said they have seen a few cases of DCM feeding the grain free foods. I told him him in up one but decided to have my dogs whole blood taurine level check and it was will over 350 but he kept saying that it may still be an issue until I mentioned the food I feed and that it wasn't grain free. That's when he said not to worry and with good taurine levels not to worry.

So he is a cardiologist and to him the point i took away from what he was saying was that even with normal level of taurine, there has been some issues with the grain free foods and DCM even with taurine levels in the ok range.

I was at a clinic sponsored by the Golden Retriever club of New Jersey so I didn't get a chance to really ask to many questions as it was like a production line and there were over 300 scheduled yesterday between eyes and heart exams.

I should have asked if he was part of the peer review or something to know if he had more info than was already it there. Either way, I'm curious if there's something else going on or if he is just trying to spoke people into opening their eyes about the issue or trying to drive up business to get echo's done on dogs. He never once said anything other then the grain free foods. The study is about low taurine diet related DCM. So I'm not going to worry about it but now I'm just extra curious to see what is recommended.

Eric
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Last edited by Maggie'sVoice; 04-29-2019 at 08:49 AM.
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post #368 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 10:25 AM
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Taurine Deficiency and nutritionally mediated DCM in GR

Please come and join this Faceb Group, we're a science and evidence based group following Dr. Stern's and his colleagues research. We likley have all the factual answers to your questions. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1257...f=group_header. If the link doesn't show, the name of the FB group is Taurine Deficiency in Golden Retrievers.
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post #369 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 10:34 AM
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Many dogs with normal taurine levels have been diagnosed with nutritionally mediate Dilated Cardiomyopathy -- NM DCM. So, you can't be assured your dog isn't at risk and an echo would be recommended. It's the only way to ensure with certainty whether or not your dog has NM DCM. Please join our science and evidenced based FB Group - Taurine Deficiency in Golden Retrievers for all the information and facts. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1257...f=group_header
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post #370 of 371 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 08:24 PM
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I’m just not gonna take any chance.
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