Diversion bird question - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Diversion bird question

This may be a stupid newbie question. If so, I'm sorry!

For people who know less than I do (or if I know less than I think I do and have the definition wrong...), here's what I am calling a diversion bird: A mark that is thrown while the dog is coming back from another mark. The dog has bird #1 in his mouth, is expected to finish retrieve #1, then retrieve the mark that was thrown as he was returning from #1.

What do you want your dog to do when the guns are shot and the diversion mark is falling? Is it best if your dog keeps moving toward you, but watches the mark falling? Or should the dog stop (standing and still holding bird #1), watch the diversion, then finish the retrieve without further command? Or would it be advisable that the dog sit (still holding #1), watch the diversion, and keep looking at the spot it went down until you blow the come in wistle? Senario #3 would basically be a sit to flush/shot as you would expect from a flushing dog, right? And if I understand correctly, I dog that watches where a mark fell for a few seconds typically remembers it better, right? OR does it all depend on the individual dog? Just for clarification, I'm talking about hunt test situation (so if any of these gets marked down, that can play into your answer).

Sarah

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 03:13 PM
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In a AKC hunt test-the dog must not drop it's mark and pick up the diversion bird. No matter what. I do not sit my dogs, I let them watch the diversion bird while they are on their way in-I always blow my come in whistle while the diversion bird is in the air-better safe then sorry. Remember when you send them for the diversion bird you can handle-it is not considered a mark and will not count against you in anyway. Unless your dog gives you the finger while handling-then you is in trouble! As a judge I would rather see a clear crisp handle then letting the dog roam all over. Diversions are about control. When training-once you are confident your dog won't grab the diversion bird and spit out its mark-start trying to throw a real tempting duck almost on top of them as a diversion. Make sure to practice this on land and in the water. I don't want my dog breaking down his come in-he can watch it but he needs to be getting in to me. Ryder barely breaks speed-but he does veer slightly towards the diversion. Today I blopped one right on top of him- I could tell he wanted to spit out his bumper for the duck-I also threw it on the way back in from a long blind just for kicks.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 03:16 PM
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My understanding is you want the dog to see the DB fall, but continue to come into you. I have started throwing a bumper to either side or behind me when Dooley is coming in with a bumper.

I am starting very low key, for instance, instead of actually throwing the bumper, I just swing it while he is coming in. The first time I did that he dropped his bumper and went for the one in my hand. So we worked on that and now I am able to throw my bumper but do not use a lot of fan fare when doing so. I'd be interested to hear what the experts have to say.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 03:29 PM
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Also-you may not always get a diversion throw-esp. In SH, you are very likely to get a diversion shot as the dog is coming back in from the go bird. Practice this in training-you would be surprised how it can mess up a memory mark. I like to occasionally shoot a shotgun on the line while they are coming back in with the go bird,usually on a double because I think the picture is clearer. I put the gun down as I'm saying heel, while he is holding the bird I tell him to get his mark-focus him back on that memory mark, make sure he is lined up right, take the bird "where's your mark-that's it" then send once I see his body language tell me he is locked on that mark. I totally ignore the shot.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-06-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaGold View Post
This may be a stupid newbie question. If so, I'm sorry!

For people who know less than I do (or if I know less than I think I do and have the definition wrong...), here's what I am calling a diversion bird: A mark that is thrown while the dog is coming back from another mark. The dog has bird #1 in his mouth, is expected to finish retrieve #1, then retrieve the mark that was thrown as he was returning from #1.

What do you want your dog to do when the guns are shot and the diversion mark is falling? Is it best if your dog keeps moving toward you, but watches the mark falling?
First, there are many ways to present diversion marks. The "bird-in-the-face" is just one of them. I believe HRC rules only allow that particular one, but I have no idea why.

To be honest, a poison bird blind is just another version of a diversion mark, no matter how it's configured.

In the case you asked about you would want the dog to watch the mark while continuing to you to deliver. But if you give your dog a full education in all standard diversion concepts - first in standard order, and then in poison bird, you will have little trouble with tests like that.

EvanG

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 07:20 AM
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Because we have a sit-to-flush on the upland series that is part of a MH test in Canada, I trained my dog to sit when the diversion happens on land. I give a sit whistle, and once the bird hits the ground give a come-in. It has become so automatic for her now that the bird goes and she's already sitting as I blow the whistle. Just makes a good habit for the next level! If it happens on water, I just blow a come-in whistle to encourage the return.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-2010, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you every one! It's much more clear now. Very interesting the differences between the US and Can. tests.

Sarah

Piper: Topbrass Pipe Dream CD, JH, RA, AXP, MJP, OFP, T2BP, WCX, CCA (7/19/09)
Tris: Kelakye's Third Time's The Charm WC (12/18/16)
Ruby: Topbrass Ravishing Ruby CDX, RAE, JH, AX, AXJ, MJP, XF, WCX, CCA, VC, CGC, TT (8/1/04-4/19/18)
Sage: Prime Time Sage RN, CGC (10/27/97-12/2/12)
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 06:49 AM
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For further explanation, here is a Four Phase Drill, which is designed to school retrievers on the four main diversion mark concepts. It is done on all four phases in the standard "pick up the mark first, then line the blind" manner, and then on phases A, B, and C as poison bird blinds.



Any questions, fire away!

EvanG

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