Understanding Lingo on this Hunt and Field forum - Page 3 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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FT,
How much are poison birds and poison marks used in field trials?


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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 03:51 PM
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Very educational thanks everyone!

I think a wipe out bird is a very exciting "dink bird" thrown across the dog's face as the go bird to somewhat "wipe out" the memory of the previous birds

I didn't know what a contrary mark is so looked it up, appears to be some different meanings but from what I could gather, is a more advanced concept where the bird placement is such that a straight line might contradict some training such as staying in the water and off land, so the dog has to use good marking and not be like a "training robot" .

I couldn't find anything about indented doubles. I have so many books but no time to read them.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by boomers_dawn View Post
Very educational thanks everyone!
I didn't know what a contrary mark is so looked it up, appears to be some different meanings but from what I could gather, is a more advanced concept where the bird placement is such that a straight line might contradict some training such as staying in the water and off land, so the dog has to use good marking and not be like a "training robot" .
Contrary marks are contrary to good training.
What do contrary marks prove in a test or trial?
Nothing. A contrary mark puts a bird where an untrained dog wants to go, so if a dog arrives to it with little difficulty, is that because he MARKED it or because he fell for every factor along the way and was funneled straight to the bird? Hard to tell, isn't it? It doesn't separate the trained dogs from the untrained dogs or the good markers from the lucky ones.

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I couldn't find anything about indented doubles. I have so many books but no time to read them.
Not sure if you're joking Perhaps "out of order double" is the term? Just means longer go bird.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alaska7133 View Post
FT,
How much are poison birds and poison marks used in field trials?
You'll see one in either the Open or the Am in about every other field trial around here.

Some judges abhor them and will never throw one ... I know of one person that tried with great diligence to get the AKC to outlaw them from field trials (AKC wasn't persuaded) ... but then, that may have been because he could NEVER get his dog past a poison bird!
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 01:08 PM
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I've seen a poison bird used at one qual. Very limited water so they had to do something to mix it up.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 05:10 PM
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Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.



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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.

Way more common in master to have a poison bird or some sort of wonky out of order mark & blind arrangement.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-09-2018, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.
Technically speaking, no you didn't. Poison birds are not to be picked up by the dog at anytime, hence the name "poison" bird. In a Hunt Test, all of the birds are to be eventually picked up, so they can't be poison birds.

Hunt Tests often use a "control" bird that is out there as a test of control. For example a short in your face flyer that is not to be picked up until after first running and completing the blind retrieves.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampcollie View Post
Technically speaking, no you didn't. Poison birds are not to be picked up by the dog at anytime, hence the name "poison" bird. In a Hunt Test, all of the birds are to be eventually picked up, so they can't be poison birds.

Hunt Tests often use a "control" bird that is out there as a test of control. For example a short in your face flyer that is not to be picked up until after first running and completing the blind retrieves.
Yes, they are called diversion birds.


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 08:26 AM
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"Diversion bird" is typically any bird that is not a go bird -- I've heard people call poison birds, memory birds and bulldogs "diversion birds" -- but traditionally it is meant as a bird thrown on the WAY BACK from another retrieve. A bird the dog is expected to pick up but has not seen thrown from the line, thus it is not a mark and you get a free handle. I suppose a diversion bird could be a poison bird as well if the judges require you pick up a blind first before retrieving the diversion.

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