hunting with a border collie? - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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hunting with a border collie?

Ok, just thought that title might get some attention.
Ever since we got the Tito monster at the tender age of 7-1/2 weeks, he stalks things that are in motion. Neither of my other 2 goldens does this. He will crouch (I swear, just like a border collie), wait for the moving object to get to whatever he must consider the correct distance/trajectory/diagonal, then FLIES into action in an all-out run to whatever he's been stalking (most often, another dog or a bird).
What do you hunting folks make of this? It's totally beside the point in obedience and agility, since I've never seen him stalk a judge (yet) so I've never given it much thought one way or the other except to laugh when I see him do it because it seems so typical of a herding dog, not a hunting dog. But that, of course, comes from someone who has never hunted and doesn't even know if that's normal in a hunting dog! Is this something that's common in goldens and my other 2 were just abnormal?
Mostly, is this something I should encourage/discourage/ignore?
Does it serve any purpose in a hunting breed?
The other thing he does, which makes me crazy but my other male does it too, is leaves something out in the yard 100 yards or more away (not visible) and comes in the house.
Then, at some point, often a couple hours later, for no apparent reason he will get up from his bed in the house and ask to be let outside. He will go immediately and directly to where he left the toy or ball, bring it back in, and go back onto his bed with it.
So a lot of people say dogs can't "think". What makes him suddenly decide to go get the toy/ball that he left in the yard hours ago?
Any insight??



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
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and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"

Last edited by hotel4dogs; 01-13-2009 at 01:36 PM. Reason: fixed a silly error
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 01:50 PM
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Well they did use pointers and setters to 'build' the border collie stalk, so it's possible!

He must be related to Storee, she does a lot of border collie style moves like that. She'll stalk and crouch when she's playing or I'm throwing a ball, and will even stand and stare like she's 'giving eye' - no way she's learned all of that from Ticket. And if I take a stick away from her and toss it into the bush, she'll ignore it to a point then fly off to go find it and bring it back.

She's my first 'field' dog so it's kinda all new to me...

Lana
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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I hope some of the "field people" can give us some insight into what use that type of behavior has! It's all VERY new to me!



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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Well they did use pointers and setters to 'build' the border collie stalk, so it's possible!

He must be related to Storee, she does a lot of border collie style moves like that. She'll stalk and crouch when she's playing or I'm throwing a ball, and will even stand and stare like she's 'giving eye' - no way she's learned all of that from Ticket. And if I take a stick away from her and toss it into the bush, she'll ignore it to a point then fly off to go find it and bring it back.

She's my first 'field' dog so it's kinda all new to me...

Lana



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 04:34 PM
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I have seen them do that when upland hunting. I had one that would get low and creep when he got the scent. If you were ever hunting planted birds, he would pick them up before they flushed. Seems like they either go into stalk mode or kick down the door mode.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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ok, my ignorance is hanging all over the place...what would be considered upland hunting??


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Originally Posted by Tatnall View Post
I have seen them do that when upland hunting. I had one that would get low and creep when he got the scent. If you were ever hunting planted birds, he would pick them up before they flushed. Seems like they either go into stalk mode or kick down the door mode.



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 08:37 PM
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The toy memory is sooooooo part of being a "field" golden. The toy becomes the focus of the hunting or prey drive when there's no hunting or the dog is never taken hunting. I'm not sure what leads them to go back for them later, but I've seen that. Maybe it's a prey instinct?

With Gus, I remember taking him hiking and taking a tennis ball he found away from him. He would carry them for miles if I let him, so I would make him leave them behind, and I'd kick them into the woods. We came back, weeks later, and he ran straight for the spot where he remembered the ball and got it.

Much of what working dogs do (retrieving, herding) is a prey instinct that's been modified by breeding.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
ok, my ignorance is hanging all over the place...what would be considered upland hunting??
Not waterfowl. Pheasant, Grouse, Quail, etc. The dogs use their noses to find birds and flush them so you can shoot them. They are actually hunting as opposed to waterfowl hunting where they are sitting there until you shoot something then they go find it (and sometimes have to hunt for it).
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post

With Gus, I remember taking him hiking and taking a tennis ball he found away from him. He would carry them for miles if I let him, so I would make him leave them behind, and I'd kick them into the woods. We came back, weeks later, and he ran straight for the spot where he remembered the ball and got it.
It seems to work best for really nasty stuff, like dead squirrels.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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thanks, now the next time someone refers to upland hunting I will know what they are talking about!



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Originally Posted by Tatnall View Post
Not waterfowl. Pheasant, Grouse, Quail, etc. The dogs use their noses to find birds and flush them so you can shoot them. They are actually hunting as opposed to waterfowl hunting where they are sitting there until you shoot something then they go find it (and sometimes have to hunt for it).



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Isn't that wild? And people say dogs don't think. How can they possible look for it later if they don't think??


Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
With Gus, I remember taking him hiking and taking a tennis ball he found away from him. He would carry them for miles if I let him, so I would make him leave them behind, and I'd kick them into the woods. We came back, weeks later, and he ran straight for the spot where he remembered the ball and got it.

Much of what working dogs do (retrieving, herding) is a prey instinct that's been modified by breeding.



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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