Marking - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Claudia M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Thanks: 6,162
Thanked 4,221 Times in 2,431 Posts
Marking

I am starting this thread because of a comment in another thread about how well trained dogs fail WC because they are used to marking 200-300 yard marks.

I would dare say that is not a well trained dog.

A well trained dog picks birds at 25 yards as well as 300 yards. Have trained with both hunt test and field trial people. And all those dogs can do both long and short marks. The "newer" people were amazed at this one field trial person who had his AFC dog perform on a walk up triple, out of order flyer with a blind under the arch of the flyer and one past an old fall better than any of the MH level training dogs. His dogs also aced the FT set up.

On the short marks my only fear is breaking. You do not have that issue in a WC because you can hold your dog. MH is a different story (no such thing as a controlled break). I thought I had to wear depends in an MH test where all three marks were under 50 yards with the first bird thrown into the dog at less than 30 yards. As a "weekend warrior" as far as training I make sure to balance both short and long marks.


Rose Bud - Golden Retriever (June 2012)
Darcy Bud - Flat Coated Retriever (June 2009)
Belle Bud - Golden Retriever (December 2014)
Claudia M is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Claudia M For This Useful Post:
Edward Lee Nelson (01-31-2018), gdgli (02-01-2018), hotel4dogs (02-01-2018), myluckypenny (01-31-2018), Prism Goldens (01-31-2018), Sweese (01-31-2018)
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 09:12 PM
Jay S.
 
Sweese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Little Elm, TX
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Thanks: 133
Thanked 147 Times in 46 Posts
It is unfortunate that others have failed a WC test with a dog that can mark to double that distance. Sometimes our dogs remind us that they are just dogs.

Try UKC finished if you want a bit more excitement. You will have a real gun and poppers at the line.

Jay
Photographer Afield
Sweese is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sweese For This Useful Post:
Claudia M (01-31-2018), hotel4dogs (02-01-2018)
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Claudia M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Thanks: 6,162
Thanked 4,221 Times in 2,431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweese View Post
It is unfortunate that others have failed a WC test with a dog that can mark to double that distance. Sometimes our dogs remind us that they are just dogs.

Try UKC finished if you want a bit more excitement. You will have a real gun and poppers at the line.
Funny you say that, I just had the privilege to watch a video of Belle's brother working on it. Quite different and interesting.

We have done couple pheasant shoots this winter and we were quite at the line where the shooters were. That did not seem to phase her. It was a very good opportunity to work on those breaking birds.


Rose Bud - Golden Retriever (June 2012)
Darcy Bud - Flat Coated Retriever (June 2009)
Belle Bud - Golden Retriever (December 2014)
Claudia M is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Claudia M For This Useful Post:
gdgli (02-01-2018)
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 04:39 AM
Preeminent Member
 
hotel4dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SW of Chicago
Posts: 20,936
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 292 Post(s)
Thanks: 25,960
Thanked 19,819 Times in 7,736 Posts
Yes, I probably should have said "an apparently well trained dog".
Dogs tend to reveal holes in their training at inopportune times!



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
hotel4dogs is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hotel4dogs For This Useful Post:
Claudia M (02-01-2018)
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Claudia M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Thanks: 6,162
Thanked 4,221 Times in 2,431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Yes, I probably should have said "an apparently well trained dog".
Dogs tend to reveal holes in their training at inopportune times!
You see that mostly with young dogs. Unfortunately there is this rush nowadays to get titles sooner and sooner before they get more advanced in the training.


Rose Bud - Golden Retriever (June 2012)
Darcy Bud - Flat Coated Retriever (June 2009)
Belle Bud - Golden Retriever (December 2014)
Claudia M is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Claudia M For This Useful Post:
hotel4dogs (02-01-2018), Sweese (02-01-2018)
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 09:14 AM
the party's crashing us
 
K9-Design's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gatorcountry
Posts: 4,141
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,148
Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,011 Posts
I think stories of "field trial trained dogs failing a WC because they overrun marks" are highly exaggerated. Any dog can over-run a mark for a variety of reasons. Most FT-only trained dogs regularly pick up marks that are way less than what we would consider a "Field trial mark." That 50 yard flyer sets up a very challenging 400 yard punch bird but it's still the same 50 yard flyer you'd see in a WCX. On the flip side MANY hunt test only trainers have it in their heads that they don't need to train over 100 or 150 yards because their dog will never see over that in a test....

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix"
BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
K9-Design is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to K9-Design For This Useful Post:
Alaska7133 (02-03-2018), Claudia M (02-01-2018), hotel4dogs (02-01-2018)
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Claudia M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Thanks: 6,162
Thanked 4,221 Times in 2,431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by K9-Design View Post
I think stories of "field trial trained dogs failing a WC because they overrun marks" are highly exaggerated. Any dog can over-run a mark for a variety of reasons. Most FT-only trained dogs regularly pick up marks that are way less than what we would consider a "Field trial mark." That 50 yard flyer sets up a very challenging 400 yard punch bird but it's still the same 50 yard flyer you'd see in a WCX. On the flip side MANY hunt test only trainers have it in their heads that they don't need to train over 100 or 150 yards because their dog will never see over that in a test....
I have seen more and more hunt test clubs incorporating Qs into their tests. That gives me hope that you will see less and less hunt test only trainers think that way. After all, the rule of thumb says always train at the level above the one you enter. Q is the one above MH and of course you will see marks over 100 to 150 yards.


Rose Bud - Golden Retriever (June 2012)
Darcy Bud - Flat Coated Retriever (June 2009)
Belle Bud - Golden Retriever (December 2014)
Claudia M is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 10:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Thanks: 441
Thanked 1,340 Times in 522 Posts
It's all about balance, training on long - middle - short marks is critical to success. When I am running walking singles, I like to start short, then go middle distance, then go long, then back to middle, and end on short.
As for short marks being set up to be difficult, I'll never forget what an old field trialer said at an Open, which was proving to be difficult for the dogs, which had a long stand-out memory bird shot first, then a short retired, and a long flyer shot last, "Not even Rin Tin Tin can go short after going long twice!"
(They have to see it in training.)
FTGoldens is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to FTGoldens For This Useful Post:
Alaska7133 (02-03-2018), Claudia M (02-02-2018), Edward Lee Nelson (02-02-2018), hotel4dogs (02-02-2018)
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-02-2018, 04:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 145 Times in 61 Posts
FT Goldens It's funny you mentioned that set-up. I ran it last week as singles of course with a retired in the middle. There was a open I ran in the late 90's at Blue Ridge where the set-up was as you mentioned: Stand out long bird on left prob 300 yrds plus, short retired middle thrown right about 100 yrds out and flyer on the right a little shorter than the left bird. Over half the field had to handle on the short retired in the middle. Crazy. I think some set-ups you can practice and practice but having to go short after two long marks and guns still standing out when one is a flyer station is very tough. Hope the pups are doing well!

Lee Nelson (Current Dogs)
Firemarks Prayer of Jabez ***, 14 Derby Points, OS, 2006 Maryland Gun Dog Champion-Golden
Rise Again's Jeremiah Twenty Nine Eleven**
RIP: Multiple MH's and Derby pointed Labs.
Edward Lee Nelson is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Edward Lee Nelson For This Useful Post:
hotel4dogs (02-03-2018)
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome