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post #71 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
See, here's the thing.
Tito was bred to be a Golden Retriever.
Not a show dog.
Not a field dog.
Not an agility dog.
And so on....
So I ended up with a true Golden Retriever. Nice structure? Check. Want to try obedience? I can do that. Agility? Got ya covered. Tracking? Show me what you want and I'll do it. Birds? Heck, I'm a Golden Retriever, I love birds, I will hunt and retrieve all day. Water dog? Let me loose on the dock! Nosework? I have a fantastic nose.
Don't have time or energy to do much today? Cool, I'll just chill on the floor until you're in the mood to go do something.
Oh, and I'll be 11 in a couple of weeks and I have no arthritis and can do just about everything I could do when I was young because I have the proper structure to hold up to the things I've done all my life.
And THAT is the old fashioned Golden. Ready, willing and able to do whatever you want to do, but content to lie by your feet and snooze, too.
And it's what *we* are destroying by breeding to win in a specific venue, rather than breeding to preserve the breed.
Agreed and exactly what i am getting to, just slower LOL
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post #72 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
See, here's the thing.
Tito was bred to be a Golden Retriever.
Not a show dog.
Not a field dog.
Not an agility dog.
And so on....
So I ended up with a true Golden Retriever. Nice structure? Check. Want to try obedience? I can do that. Agility? Got ya covered. Tracking? Show me what you want and I'll do it. Birds? Heck, I'm a Golden Retriever, I love birds, I will hunt and retrieve all day. Water dog? Let me loose on the dock! Nosework? I have a fantastic nose.
Don't have time or energy to do much today? Cool, I'll just chill on the floor until you're in the mood to go do something.
Oh, and I'll be 11 in a couple of weeks and I have no arthritis and can do just about everything I could do when I was young because I have the proper structure to hold up to the things I've done all my life.
And THAT is the old fashioned Golden. Ready, willing and able to do whatever you want to do, but content to lie by your feet and snooze, too.
And it's what *we* are destroying by breeding to win in a specific venue, rather than breeding to preserve the breed.
And my comment is that people are going away from the Tito type of golden and aiming for more extreme versions of what they singularly focus on. This should not be a breed that is ending up in the "extremes" - particularly when it comes to energy, activity, and even drive.

There's a lot of us who would never have gotten into golden retrievers if they had the high energy and extreme drive similar to field labs.

And some performance lines are approaching the high energy and extreme drive of the field labs. Which is fine for the people who prefer all that, but most of us want a more moderate dog who looks like a golden retriever.

The extreme stuff, among else, is concerning because temperament is tangled up in all of that.

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post #73 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsofPeaches View Post
Gosh why do people always act like Field Golden’s are bouncing off the all all the time. They have such great off switches at home. Shoot should they not be high drive in the field or is that also considered too much dog as well? I have a family and kids and no land to speak of. I couldn’t handle a dog that was bouncing off the walls.
I just want to chime in to emphasize this point. I seriously want to bang my head against a wall every time I read those "choosing a golden retriever" threads where people are telling others to avoid breeders who focus on hunting and performance venues because "those dogs will be so high energy" and "need a job" and "you will have to run them for hours a day". WHAT!? My goldens do not need a job. They do not get trained or run daily (or hardly ever). They LIKE to work, not need to. They love being pets and with their people, but they don't care what they are doing.

So all this worry about extremes in terms of energy and drive and whatnot just seems exaggerated.

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post #74 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 07:50 PM
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My point exactly!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Megora View Post
And my comment is that people are going away from the Tito type of golden and aiming for more extreme versions of what they singularly focus on. This should not be a breed that is ending up in the "extremes" - particularly when it comes to energy, activity, and even drive.

There's a lot of us who would never have gotten into golden retrievers if they had the high energy and extreme drive similar to field labs.

And some performance lines are approaching the high energy and extreme drive of the field labs. Which is fine for the people who prefer all that, but most of us want a more moderate dog who looks like a golden retriever.

The extreme stuff, among else, is concerning because temperament is tangled up in all of that.



CH Rosewood Little Giant VCD3 UDX VER RA TDX MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD AN UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

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My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #75 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 08:34 PM
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One of the wonderful attributes of our breed is that a Golden Retriever Person can find a great dog within the breed, whether they want a pet, a conformation competitor, an agility competitor, a SAR co-worker, an obedience competitor, a tracker, a hunt test dog, or a field trial competitor. If a GRP wants an all-around dog (e.g., Tito the Monster), ours is a breed wherein there just possibly could be another one ... maybe.
If the GRP doesn't want an "extreme," then there are tons of choices; if the GRP wants an extreme, they still have choices!
Me ... I want an extreme ... I play the field trial game and to win, my dogs have to beat the extremes in that OTHER breed (yes, said OTHER breed has the same situation).
Is pursuit of my goals, as some have implied, deleterious to the breed ... I think not, but that's just one person's opinion.
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post #76 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Me ... I want an extreme ... I play the field trial game and to win, my dogs have to beat the extremes in that OTHER breed (yes, said OTHER breed has the same situation).
To me, this is detrimental to the breed because I don't think the breed was ever intended to be that extreme. And people who got into the breed for other reasons do not want a dog who is basically bred for the same hard attributes as labs, chessies, etc.

And keep in mind those other breeds are getting bred to extremes as well to compete.

It's not good for any of these breeds.

It's also disregarding breed standards if you are breeding for the most extreme dogs you can every litter and continuing to go that direction vs breeding for steady, sound, dogs who cleanly and clearly represent the breed in every attribute.

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post #77 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTGoldens View Post
Me ... I want an extreme ... I play the field trial game and to win, my dogs have to beat the extremes in that OTHER breed (yes, said OTHER breed has the same situation).
Is pursuit of my goals, as some have implied, deleterious to the breed ... I think not, but that's just one person's opinion.
If your goal is to win at all costs, regardless of whether your personal pursuit of excellence increases demand for dogs that are at or beyond an extreme, then that, in this one person’s opinion, seems very self-centered. It certainly doesn’t seem like the position of someone interested in the betterment of any breed.
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post #78 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 09:03 PM
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The breed standard addresses the requisite large and small details of structure and type needed to hunt in the original way goldens fit into the retriever category . I think that before dogs can earn an MH, AFC, or FC, they should have a breed CH.

Just joking.

But it is the same point.

What if you have a game, brave and birdy dog who finished MH/** at two, and is broken down with spinal arthritis and spondylosis by 6 bc he worked crazy hard on a poor structure with a long loin and long body? I ask this because I am babysitting one right now.

Please dont ever quote that Primarily A hunting dog dependent clause which is forever being used incorrectly with terrible grammar. The sentence says that the dog should be SHOWN. That is the main point of the sentence . The dog should be shown in hard working condition.

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post #79 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampcollie View Post

Requiring a dog to earn a WC prior to being awarded a CH isn't too much to ask IMHDAO.
And of course requiring the MH to earn at least one 3 point major on the flip side

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post #80 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionsofPeaches View Post
yOu know, I don't care to get into a fighting match, but conformation is completely subjective to the judges opinions on looks. .
That is far from true . What is a 90 degree angle- how far off from that? Level, Scissor bite, what percentage of the leg does the hock take up, how many fingers long is the loin. Many judges know what they are doing, and are fine lifelong students of dogs. What is more subjective here is the poster's option of conformation judges and breeders. As Pat Trotter says, the judge with the badge judges that day, but the breeder judges every time they select parents of a litter, and that is in the gene pool forever. Even with that contempt for a dog's conformation and for conforming to the breed standard, you are still the judge if you breed.

BISS GCHS CH Tamarack Billions Of Stars Over Poeticgold CD RN TDI CGCA CGCU CGC OS Top 20 2015 (Mystic)
BISS GCH CH RainyDay PoeticGold Secret Society BPIS CGC (HipHop)
GCH AM CH Harborview Sweeter Than 'Shine At PoeticGold CGC (Lush)
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Brio N PoeticGold's Nantucket Reds ( Velvet)

Last edited by Ljilly28; 01-17-2018 at 09:33 PM.
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