Champion title discussion - Page 5 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #41 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 09:48 PM
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post #42 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:00 PM
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For the record, the poodles I have seen in the field and not suitable for my pheasant hunting or my duck hunting. My hunting requires extremely athletic dogs with extremely high drive and and insane love for water
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post #43 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nate83 View Post
This is Eng. CH. Noranby Campfire, he is the first golden champion. The other pic is a current champion, you can see the difference in everything from the coat to the overall size and build.
I am curious do you believe that the breeders of Noranby Camfite at the he was born, just 3 years after they were first shown as flat coats (Golden), considered this dog to be the template by which all future Goldens should be judged?

Are there differences? Of course! I for one lament the amount of coat we are seeing in the ring.

I think a lot of what you see a drastic differences though has more to do with hair (I agree with you there is too much), grooming, presentation and the development of breed type. Remember the standard is a written template there are bound to be variations in interpretation. That is actually a good thing for the breed.


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post #44 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:12 PM
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post #45 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:15 PM
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Yes that fur is kind of what Iíve been thinking about as far as getting the job done. I have heard so many people say the dogs need a lot of coat to keep them warm while hunting in the winter And swimming. Yet I see field Goldenís with less coat do just fine while I see heavy coated dogs struggle to pull themselves out of the water while lugging all that heavy water logged coat with them. Glad to hear there are breeders that try to stay away from that.

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post #46 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:16 PM
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Here's an interesting point.

It seems that a field golden can do the work despite lacking the so called structure that conformation golden breeders inset they need to function in the field. Why do you think that is?
That to me is an easy question to answer. First and formost because a dog with Drive will do the job even it it hurts or kills them. I have seen my Min Pin do just that. Min Pins have serious vermin hunting blood behind them. He just about killed himself several times and caused permanent damage to his body. He was extremely incorrect and though his instincts said yes his body paid the price especially as he aged.

Second generic hunting dogs do great jobs, however generic is not Golden. The standard is a blueprint or template first started by expert dog people and usually horse people. What is in there is designed to build a Golden not a generic hunting dog. The things they included are designed to make a Golden able to do his original job well, easily and ultimately as pain free as possible.

If generic hunting dog is all it took to be any sporting breed, all the standards would be identical. But instead the breed founders wanted different things in their partners.


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post #47 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:21 PM
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Question is though, if you wanted extremely athletic and extremely high drive.... why get a golden retriever when there are other breeds out there who are show bred, breed standard, and have all of that to offer in addition to being extremely athletic and extremely high drive?

That's about the same amount of concerning as people who want newfie heads and collie coats on show goldens.

Many of us are into golden retrievers to begin with because other retriever breeds and pointing retriever breeds too are too much dog for most people who aren't living outside or something.
Your post suggests that Goldens should not be extremely athletic and extremely high drive. That is the root of the problem. The dog is supposed to be a hunting dog. My needs are for the athlete. I am a hunter. I hunt my dog five hours or more at a time. Why should I use a retriever breed with an inferior nose?
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post #48 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:32 PM
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Gosh why do people always act like Field Goldenís are bouncing off the all all the time. They have such great off switches at home. Shoot should they not be high drive in the field or is that also considered too much dog as well? I have a family and kids and no land to speak of. I couldnít handle a dog that was bouncing off the walls.

I do fear that the natural drive and desire of the Golden is being bred out of them so they wonít be too much dog for some people. And since hunting and field is my venue and it is what the dog is supposed to do this scares me for the breed.

Iím not as king for show people to stop showing. I could care less if thatís what you like to do. But I do worry about the breed with some of these tweaks that evolve over time due to subjective judges in the ring that ultimately determine the future generations of golden retrievers. Think about the fur. A couple judges choose overly heavy coats and then breeders start breeding for more coat. Well this truly is detrimental to the dog as an outdoor athletic lifestyle hunting.

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post #49 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:33 PM
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post #50 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:36 PM
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Megora
Your post said if I want extremely athletic and extremely high drive why not get another breed. Implication is that this is not in our breed.
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