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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 10:33 AM
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That's crazy to me that she's doing lining drills at 18 weeks! I was doing back pile with Maisey before she was forced (and I thought that was untraditional) but lining drills did not even cross my mind. Must be fun though to do it for fun before things get "serious" after force.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 12:05 PM
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she's 16 weeks, ha ha. I did all these things with Proof when he was sitting and steady as well. He loved the drills and he loves blinds. I "feel" that its because it was all so fun and happy initially but who the heck knows, could just be him. I thought I was "untraditional" too but recently one of my mentors lent me a book to read. Normally I'm not into reading too much about training stuff but I started reading it and have loved the book. I'm sure everyone on here has already read it. Its Training Retrievers the Cotton Pershall Method. The book is very easy to read, its like a story and I like it a lot. Well, Mr. Pershall already starts lining drills at a very young age as long as they show retrieval desire. This actually made me feel relief, ha ha, that I'm not pushing the pup. But honestly, I do this stuff to entertain her. These pups are very intelligent and bred to work so sitting around the house after a training morning doesn't cut it. She needs a couple training sessions a day to keep her occupied.

Anyway, today we went and worked in our flat field. It had several patches of cover since it hasn't been mowed so I utilized those. Also we always have multiple guns out in the field with her working on looking long first. She is very neat to watch. Now that I have her steadier I am actually stepping up on her already and no'ing her off of the short gunner!! Very cool to me to watch this little puppy learning to look at different guns. She nailed all of her marks. WE rotated a few times with set ups like hip pocket, converging, diverging, into cover and up some slopes. The furthest was about 75 yards but of course they were all singles. Also, we shortened a few up but threw in cover. I had "planted" a few in the cover to help her hunt if she pushed into the cover. She actually just marked the thrown one and brought that one in but I wanted her to be successful if she pushed into that cover and not give up.

Its very neat to train a puppy from the beginning again but knowing so much more than when I trained Proof. I know why I am doing things now so I feel like I have a better plan. I hope she continues being successful!

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 01:54 PM
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Good to know everyone is having a great summer. Vivian I really like hearing how your girly is doing! MOP, your lab sounds like she is coming along very well!

Nothing much up here in Alaska. Riot is in MN with the pro. So I started training Lucy again. She passed another WC last weekend. She refuses to honor on water, so I didn't attempt a WCX and I don't really want to put that much effort into training her. We ran senior last weekend and she flipped me the bird on the water blind, no surprise considering we've trained about 2 weeks out of the last year. Then I judged junior on Sunday. I really had some great dogs and we passed 15 out of 19 dogs. I judge junior again next month.

This coming weekend I'll be apprenticing for spaniel hunt test judging. The club has you apprentice all 3 levels the same day. Then I'll run Lucy in senior on Sunday. She loves those chukars! I have to apprentice in August and then I'll be able to judge spaniel hunt tests next summer for my club.

It's been a rainy cold summer. Last weekend though we had sunshine. I think today might make 62 degrees. Last weekend we got all the way to 82 degrees! I don't think it's been that warm for a few years.


~ Stacey with Lucy and Riot, missing Hunter, Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
Wiseman Wildfire Grayling Fish On CD RA JH SHU WC "Lucy"
Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss CD RA WCX ** "Riot"
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 02:45 PM
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Well, the month of July is soon over. I feel like we've made some progress on blinds, which was my focus for my "big" dog. We ran lots of blinds and blind drills, so I'm hoping that it has really, actually paid off and that I'm not just imagining the improvement.
Youngsters are fun to train, however I enjoy all facets of training, including the all-age level competitors. With the older dog (i.e., any dog through transition), the progress may come along in tiny increments ... and those tiny increments may be weeks or even months apart. Oftentimes, when you realize there's an issue, you hope to figure out what caused it, which can help to figure out how to alleviate the problems it causes. Sometimes, however, you just have no idea what caused the issue, maybe it was something innate, yet you can still work through it by trying a bunch of different things ... which is the case with my current dog. I've talked with several pros about the particular issue (one thing about the FT pros, every one of them will readily give their thoughts about an issue and freely tell you what they think you should try). I try to mentally catalog all their ideas and, if I have already tried it or don't think it will work with this particular dog, at least I have additional ideas upon which I may need to draw from in the future, whether with this dog or another one. One thing, when talking with successful trainers, I listen carefully, consider what they say, and if I don't understand how or why it works, I'll ask. Indeed, sometimes free advice is worth less than what you pay for it, yet at other times, it's priceless. Enough blah blah blah for now ....
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 03:04 PM
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FT,
your work is amazing. I wish I could get as far with my dogs as you do. With a full time job and a family keeping you busy, I have no idea how you find the time!

I apprentice judging spaniel hunt tests on Saturday. Apprenticed all 3 levels. It's funny to see through a judges eye how you look at dogs differently. In spaniel tests, we judge by the breed's hunting style. So I had to read up the night before on hunting styles of those breeds I'd be judging. I have several friends in the show lab arena that have decided to start running spaniel tests. None of them have ever gotten farther than retriever junior titles. I thought they would be good candidates for spaniel hunt tests. Here's my thoughts: there is a reason it's called the golden nose. It's because goldens have it and labs definitely don't. I really was super disappointed to watch the labs over look bird after bird, especially since I'm friends with the owners and train with them. I swear there must have been 15 birds in that field that those dogs couldn't find. We couldn't put any more down for them. Dang. We even had to fail a lab for blinking a bird. It was painful to watch how poorly they all did. Lab after lab was terrible at finding birds. On Sunday I ran Lucy in senior. She was super perfect. It wasn't hard to be since she was the first senior dog following all those birds that the junior dogs left behind. She no whistled her hunt dead (spaniel blind) in super high cover, which I've never seen her no whistle a hunt dead.

So what's my secret to running senior so well? Nothing. We don't train. Lucy is FF of course. But nothing else. Seriously we do not train for spaniel hunt tests. Golden retrievers are the best at these tests. Now when we go for master next year, she will need to sit on the flush. That will take some training. This is a dog that hated competing in obedience and conformation, I guess she has found her heaven. Now if I could just get her to sit on the flush. I asked a spaniel guy how he got his guy to always sit on the flush, he said he bought 80 birds to practice with. At $20/bird, I won't be doing that!


~ Stacey with Lucy and Riot, missing Hunter, Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
Wiseman Wildfire Grayling Fish On CD RA JH SHU WC "Lucy"
Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss CD RA WCX ** "Riot"
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 03:55 PM
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How about a whistle and a big burn on the collar? SIT MEANS SIT
shouldn't be too difficult

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by K9-Design View Post
How about a whistle and a big burn on the collar? SIT MEANS SIT
shouldn't be too difficult
that's the theory. But I think Barb can probably explain it better than I can. Dogs can be high level predators, which is what you want. Mine is also very good at flushing her birds to fly towards a gunner. She's very aware of where both gunners are, and Lucy's birds never fly back at the handler and judges. So you're walking through a field. Picture thigh to waist high willow brush, no grass, tall fireweed and other tall weeds. There is space between the clumps of willow brush, so you thread yourself through. The willow brush is tough and are basically trees. Often your dog is completely out of sight. Lucy is a very fast quartering dog. She really works a field from edge to edge. If she gets out a bit far, I whistle her closer. If she is spending too much time quartering one area, I "over" her to the other side. You're looking for that tip of the tail to hopefully appear before the dog flushes the bird. You never know if they are on a bird or just smelling one, you have no idea when that bird is actually going to come flying up. So hitting the whistle at the right moment is very difficult. Golden retrievers have a slight hesitation, then the flush. Lucy has a very hard flush, she's going to get that bird! The birds fly away fast from her because she's tough. So at that moment I'd have to hit the whistle and convince her to sit. It's at that moment I'm also watching where the darn bird is going and watching to make sure there are no issues with the gunners. The gunners are on either side of me about 10 yards away.

Now if I could remember to hit the whistle at the right moment and know actually when the right moment is, I'd be happy. But I'm not that coordinated it seems. Lucy will sit on a whistle, but I've never attempted it when she's flushed a bird. It is so exciting to her! Plus you want the dog to be angled to the bird as it flies away so the dog can see where it lands when shot. The guys in my club that can get their field bred spaniels (very high energy) to sit on the flush, is lots and lots of birds. If I had a pot of money, I'd buy a lot of birds. That's my excuse anyway.

I suggest you try it with Bally. Have someone plant some chukars in deep cover. Grab a couple of gunners that shoot really well. Then work Bally across the field. I'm betting he will quarter very nicely for you, most goldens do it naturally. He'll probably respond nicely to a come in whistle when he too far and occasionally to the overs. Now wait till he flushes that chukar. Will you hit that whistle in time? Will he stop? Will he trap the bird? Will he catch it as it rises? Once he flushes a few birds, he'll understand the game a lot more. Now he's amped, now try hitting the whistle. Hard to say what he'll do. The good news is, if you have an independent contractor like Lucy, she will work very hard to get her birds and doesn't need any direction from me. The bad news is, she wants those birds, and will go through fire to get them...


~ Stacey with Lucy and Riot, missing Hunter, Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
Wiseman Wildfire Grayling Fish On CD RA JH SHU WC "Lucy"
Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss CD RA WCX ** "Riot"
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 01:43 AM
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This was Sunday's grounds for the test. Pretty tough to see a dog or a bird.
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~ Stacey with Lucy and Riot, missing Hunter, Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
Wiseman Wildfire Grayling Fish On CD RA JH SHU WC "Lucy"
Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss CD RA WCX ** "Riot"
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska7133 View Post
This was Sunday's grounds for the test. Pretty tough to see a dog or a bird.

That is terrible!
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-03-2017, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska7133 View Post
This was Sunday's grounds for the test. Pretty tough to see a dog or a bird.
Alaska is different!
The terrain is rugged; the vegetation is tall, dense and tough.
It's pretty much impossible for dog to go in a straight line, so they have to be true marking dogs, who have the ability to re-orient themselves.
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