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post #71 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 01:04 AM
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Ok, I get it now. He wasn't driving to the bumper.

When I FF Winter I wasn't officially training with the Pro, but he was (at no cost) coaching me though FF.
I believe he thought "middle age gal with her first dog ever, she won't last."
Winter did really well but when we got to the send from a small distance part something was not quite right. I don't have much of a yard but my front porch is about 40 feet long. I would send her to the bumper which she would race to it but she would hit it with her two front feet and slide/ride it for a few feet then snatch it up and raced back. When I told the Pro what she was doing he said, "Ah no, she is not FF". I couldn't work out my schedule to meet him so he sent me to a gal who has FF quite a few Golden's of her own. Winter's FF was finalized in about 20 minutes.
Winter is uber compliant. There have been 2 or 3 times that I have mistaken her compliance for understanding the concept.

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post #72 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 09:21 AM
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So, holly, do I understand you correctly..? Your Pro heard what she was doing and knew you had worked on FF yourself and you thought you had finished it properly but he knew she needed just a bit more. The experienced woman came over and 'finished' her last lesson in about 20 minutes and now you have seen no more of the feet instead of all mouth behavior?

I am making sure I understand so hopefully I recognize these type things at my house.


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post #73 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 10:33 AM
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Yes.
We back up to a basic ear pinch but add more resistance so she had to really pull hard to get to the bumper. We saw avoidance at first but then it clicked in. Over the next week I revisited Ff to ground.at a distance, the whole progression and the sliding behavior disappeared. Since than my FF/CC has held up.
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post #74 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 11:12 AM
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thanks so much. I am a weenie and am sort of stuck in force fetch mode because I hate upping pressure on Ellie. I have got to get over it. I really want to do this myself.


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post #75 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-23-2014, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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OK another session this morning first 3 bumper walking fetch then two small piles about 20 yards apart, heeling toward them and sending. I'm basically following Rick Stawski's video. He doesn't get into sending the dog from your side while you stand stationary until you've got a lot of your force work done. I like this since I'm very sensitive to too much pressure making heel position a hot spot (Fisher). Anyways I forced several times as a matter of course and Bally did SUPER. I was very very pleased with his momentum. Each time used a low-3 on the collar. Completely stable response, super speed, no vocalizing or worry. I am now sending on "back" and using a back-nick-back rather than continuous pressure to the pile. Will probably do the same tomorrow with two piles maybe making them a little farther apart.
Trust me Kristy I have put Bally's collar fetch off WAYYYYYYYYY too long but I am both relieved and thrilled it is going so well. I should have done it long ago.

--Anney
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"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing CDX MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix" CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #76 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-26-2014, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Lucked out the past two evenings, it clouded over, got blustery and threatened to rain, but the drops held off until I was finished training So cooler and windier than normal made for good training. Yesterday we did walking fetch between two piles of 4 bumpers about 20 yards apart. Today we started with some refresher course on sit on a whistle, then revisited the 2 piles. I then put the 8 bumpers together in one pile and ran Bally to it until he had picked up all the bumpers. The send is not formal. I have him by the leash and we take a few steps to the pile (which was about 25 yards away), as soon as he locks onto the pile I send him on "back" while we are walking. He practically drags me to get this going. I am forcing on every 4th send or so, today we worked in two nicks on the medium-3 and I was very happy -- no vocalization, no reaction at all other than GREAT momentum throughout the entire session. He picked up all 8 bumpers and could have gone for more. Very happy with sessions.

--Anney
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post #77 of 152 (permalink) Old 05-28-2014, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Another session last night, pile about 30 yards away, 10 bumpers. One nick (med-3) en route and one (low-3) on a back cast. Bally did GREAT -- super speed and attitude. He is getting it.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing CDX MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix" CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #78 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-25-2014, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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OK I have been bad about updating Bally's journal, and was out of town about 2 weeks of the past month where we didn't train much.
Since the last entry, I had progressed to running Bally to a pile about 60 yards away, picking up anywhere from 10-15 bumpers per session, both from my side (no real lining up, just me holding his tab, we walk forward about 2 feet and I say "back" when he is pulling to go), and back casts left and right from in front position. I had worked up to giving force at a low or medium 4, and he took it no problem. I must say I never once got an absolute refusal, I did get some confusion where I added collar pressure that I probably could have avoided, but Bally worked through it and never wavered.
I had an internal debate on whether or not to stretch out the FTP, or move on. With my other two dogs, I had issues in this stage of training that we had to work through (Fisher = bugging, Slater = no goes w/ increased pressure), whereas Bally never really did anything consistently bad. On one hand I think I could have created some of those behaviors to work through if I continued on with FTP (which is not necessarily a bad thing), on the other hand, we are now in the thick of summer, and to me intense heat, a lot of collar pressure, and lots of repetitive behaviors sounds like a recipe for a pretty sour attitude -- not something I want to have happen with this puppy!
So we moved on
I started training the single T night before last. Now Bally did plenty of baseball casting on a mini-T and knows his casts well. We moved into our T field where the back pile is 50 yards away and side piles 25 yards off the intersection.
These first two sessions we've only worked on lining and casting to the back pile (center line). The first night I was able to back up all the way to home plate but not without a little confusion, he wanted to look at the side piles, and at one point I got him focused on the back pile, sent him, he went out about 15 feet, sorta spun and got turned around, obviously it dawned on him that the side pile would be closer. I immediately said BACK and nicked him but that only made him try to run to the closest bumper he saw -- the left side pile. I yelled and stopped him and brought him back. I felt bad giving a collar correction when things had gone a little out of control, but Bally bailed me out by being even MORE eager to get to the back pile when I moved up a bit and re-sent him. We finished out the session without incident.
Tonight we trained at about 9:15 pm -- the field has big flood lights -- much cooler (81 -- 77% humidity -- feels like 86). Again worked on just going to the back pile. Bally was ON FIRE -- I was SOOOOOO happy with his attitude. We were able to work a little bit on focusing on the back pile from the home plate -- no, here, heel, etc to move his head -- for a first timer he did pretty well and not once did he go for a side pile. He was so fast -- even barking as I sent him -- which I've never seen him do before. The first time I thought I accidentally bumped the collar. Please remind me of this in a year when he's barking on blinds......

Yesterday we did marks -- two flyers for Bally and marks over a log.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing CDX MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix" CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC

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post #79 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-27-2014, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
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Another session tonight. Bally progresses with each session. Tonight I could line him easily to the back pile from home plate with very little looking at the side piles, no walking steps forward to focus, no wavering once sent. We had one cast per side pile. Still no trouble lining or casting to back pile after that. I think all of our casting on the mini-T made this an easy transition. I realize he now knows that "GOOD" means you are about to be sent, because he broke on "good" when I wasn't holding his tab! He also autocasted on a back cast because I wasn't fast enough. IOW, lots of momentum. Tonight also had lots of barking -- he barked on his first two sends (one from side, one back cast), which sent me back to the car for the bark collar. He only barked once after that. We'll see how that goes.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing CDX MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix" CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #80 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-29-2014, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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We are progressing on T. I forget how much work it takes to get a dog to master the concept. So many skills involved that are the foundation for ALL future field training. We will be at T for a long time. The good news is, Bally has a SUPER attitude, and is really fun to work with.
Tonight we went to do water stuff, I decided to set up a back-pile across the pond. Maybe 30-35 yards away? A little further than I would have liked. I only sent him three times, no problems, but the water so warm he was panting with tongue hanging out after the 3rd send. It felt like bath water. Yuck So we quit with that.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing CDX MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix" CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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