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post #131 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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On Sunday we had an OK session but what I started to notice was that with better behavior going out to the thrown bumper, I got more and more avoidance of the shore coming back. As in, Bally would jump back into the water really fat and be hesitant to exit when coming back to me. Some of the times it was really obvious to the point of being detrimental so I gave nicks and said "here" in the water. That made it worse and even got him turning away from the water when he would grab the bumper, and I would have to call him in, stop him and handle on the way back because he wanted to go fat, etc.
I decided that night after ruminating on it that I would not use pressure in the water on the way back for a fat return, rather attrition/handling.
Well wouldn't you know we did another session yesterday (in the rain) and Bally was GREAT. Only one of the sends did I have to correct for taking a moderately cheaty route out. All of his returns were perfect. He would grab the bumper, seek me out, and have his eyes on me the whole time, returning on a perfect line. Yay!
I still feel like we need more sessions of this before moving on.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
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post #132 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-26-2015, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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OK update. I never did get 100% on the hand-thrown cheaters but decided I needed to move on. Graduated to having a gunner throw the cheater marks (cheating singles) and Bally actually has done really well. Every once in a while I get a correction in. Overall he understands it quite well. I have to tell myself this is a process and will take a lot of time and repetition. I am moving on to channel marks the next time we train water.

We have started to do more setups incorporating walkups, marks and blinds, dry shots, diversions, etc and Bally has taken all with stride.


As far as our marking Bally is doing really well on his doubles. I've now decided if the memory bird on land is simple, no more teaching by doing it as a single. I do try to keep my memory birds long, why not -- the dog doesn't know the difference. In the water I am still doing memory birds as singles. So far so good. I am noticing my decheating paying off on his marking setups.

Blinds are going GREAT I have started to notice the past few weeks he is taking much more literal casts. It almost happened over night. He understands go over a point in the water really well.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix"
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post #133 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-26-2015, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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Excited about tonight's training. We started channel marks (cheaters). We have a LARGE channel available to us, it's actually shaped like an "L" so you can go down either channel. Channel is about 25 yards wide. I started with us basically at the shore, at one end, mark landing in the middle at ~35 yards. Bally had no problem, I backed up to about 30 yards off the shore (end of channel), gunner went about 60 yards down the channel, again mark landing in middle of channel. Again Bally was perfect. BIG water entries on the right line.
Next we repeated the exact distances ran/swam but this time the mark was shorter landing about 4-5 yards off the shore. A test. Bally did the closer one perfect, and on the longer one began to fade just a tad as he neared the bumper (fatigue and he could probably touch the bottom every once in a while so the temptation to bank and run was there). I handled once which corrected his line and he returned on the perfect line.
It was very hot out and he had consumed a lot of water by this point, so we quit when he still had a good attitude. Make that great attitude. I was really happy with this. We will repeat the same mark we ended on tomorrow, then will flip it and run down the other side of the channel.
Finally seeing this decheating work pay off. It will be a long process.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix"
BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #134 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-29-2015, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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More cheating/channel marks. Bally is improving by leaps and bounds. Saturday night we trained again at L pond and began by repeating the same mark he handled on the night before. ~30 yard entry, ~60 swim down the shore about 15 feet off shore. This time he NAILED IT and even went a little fat!!!! Great.

Had gunner move around and repeat this throw on the right shore. Ahhhhh --- fooled em Bally entered the water skinny and started to go to the shore immediately. Stopped and he turned into the water and sat. Nice thinking I called back without nicks since he jumped in and returned via water. He obviously knew what he did wrong. Repeated the throw and he was AMAZING.

Yesterday we went down to Wayne's and trained at T pond. The top of the "T" is a long narrow channel, well about 10 yards across and 75 yards long. Placed mark in the middle of the far end of the channel with a splash (visible white bumper). The water is down so there is a drop down off the shore into the water. We ran from about 25 yards back from the shore and when I sent Bally he majorly cheated off to the right, called back with lots of nicks on medium 3. Repeated throw, this time he did a correct entry, carried line about half way town the channel before starting to fade to the left. Handled to the bumper. Repeated throw again and he lined it just right. GOOOOOD DOG!!!

He has also retrieved a good number of no pressure, square entry, watery marks to balance things out so water isn't all a pressure filled obstacle course!

Day off training today.

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
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BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #135 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-29-2015, 01:47 PM
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I really wish I could train with you one day, your setups always sound so wonderful!

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post #136 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-29-2015, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Come on down, the water's fine!
How close are you to Perry, GA?

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix"
BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #137 of 152 (permalink) Old 06-29-2015, 02:50 PM
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Not too far, about 2.5 hours.

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post #138 of 152 (permalink) Old 10-27-2015, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Wow -- long time since I've added anything. Between travel and work I have not done anything terribly progressive with Bally's field training. We trialed and he earned his SH (and JH) back to back weekends in August, then had the Golden National to tackle in September. Now we're back home with GREAT weather and can now use the water at Lazy J again. Our fall field trial was this past weekend meaning any gators still hanging around, are not any more.

My big push this "semester" with Bally is teaching him to hold good lines on marks and blinds in the water. Start to see pictures.

I'm starting with what I think is the most obvious picture, and that is holding a line past a point. Once he gets this I want to move on to down the shore. Improving on both angle entries/exits and holding the line.

The past few sessions we have worked on holding a line past a point in the water, with mixed results. Sometimes I think he gets it, other times he completely falls for it and goes to touch ground on the point.

Yesterday I tried handling (he easily takes a cast off and away from the point), but that didn't seem to get the message across. It was only when I called him back when he took the wrong line that his behavior changed. We did a series of singles where the correct line was about 8-10 feet off a prominent, rather obvious point. The gunner stood even with the point on the back shore and threw away from the point (all the throws happened to be right to left, as all the points came from the right shore). There was a strong wind working in concert with the suction of the points, blowing in toward the points. On all three marks he only held the correct line after being re-called when he took a wrong line, then repeating the throw & send. On the last one he STILL swam straight for the end of the point, I let him get out on the point, sat him, and burned on a high two. Recall, rethrow, resend, and he really fought the wind and held the perfect line past the point to the bumper. I am LOATHE to do a lot of handling and/or recalling on marks but I don't know how else to get him to understand what I want. In retrospect I think I need to do a better job showing him where to go by throwing the first mark along the correct path but just off the point. It was too windy to do that yesterday, the bumper would have floated in to the point. This is all a philosophical debate in my head, I think it will take trial and error.

Today I trained by myself and set up three blinds where again the correct path was 8-10 feet past an obvious point. Three different blinds, all the same concept. The first blind, Bally headed straight for the point, one cast got him back on the right path and he followed it. The next blind he took the water a little fat and put himself farther away from the point, rather than handle into the point I let him carry it, and he lined it. Third blind was past the same point he got corrected on yesterday, but at a different angle. This time, I sent him, he initially was headed toward the end of the point, then put his shoulder into the wind and very obviously made an effort to go past the point!!!!! I don't see how that could have been an accident. I was amazed, and really excited

I also set up three long land blinds, in the front field that was just mowed short and now has about a billion hay bales in it. Blinds were probably 150, 300, 150. Bally did a nice job, one whistling one of them, and probably 3-5 whistles for the others.

Good to be back training!!!!

--Anney
"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
"Slater" HRCH Morninglo Wing-T Your Bird Can Sing UD MH NA WCX CCA VCX, Can. CD WC
"Bally" BISS GCH Can. CH Richwood Wing-T Workin' Like A Dog CD MH WCX** DDHF, Can. WCI
"Brix"
BISS GCH Can. CH Malagold Wing-T We Can Work It Out JH WC, Can. WC
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post #139 of 152 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 03:22 PM
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sounds like you are getting some really good work in! and im a fan of running blinds before marks to show the dog what you want in a handling manner that when i a running a mark and do have to handle the possablility of getting into a handling battle becomes slimmer.
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post #140 of 152 (permalink) Old 10-28-2015, 03:35 PM
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thanks for the update Anney, I appreciate hearing how you work through problems. It's easy for me to assume that everything just falls right into place for people with experience training dogs. Glad to hear Bally is doing well.


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