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OFA ratings

6K views 30 replies 9 participants last post by  aesthetic 
#1 ·
I have noticed that some members of the forum recommend only buying puppies from breeders where both the sire and dam have at least OFA good hips.

My thought is that if breeders only bred dogs with OFA good or better, the gene pool would be greatly reduced. In my research, I have noticed one litter where there were 3 pups listed who became champions - one was Fair, one was Good, and one was Excellent. OFA states that a dog with a Fair rating is not dysplastic.

OFA hip statistics for Goldens evaluated from 2011 to 2015 show a percentage of 8.4% Excellent and 15.5% dysplastic. This leaves 76.1% that were either Good or Fair. I could not find a breakdown for % Good and % Fair. A total of 156,606 Goldens have been evaluated pre-1990 through 2015.

We all want healthy dogs, but narrowing the gene pool by not breeding OFA Fair dogs could lead to more health problems in the long run.

I would like to hear more thoughts on this from other members. Thanks
 
#2 ·
I haven't seen this-
Fair hips are passing hips, I tell people that 'fair' is not 'almost dysplastic' - they are rating the conformation of the hip joint in the non-dysplastic dog.

Borderline, and below- those are dysplastic dogs.
Your numbers for Excellent are twice what I have seen, but I have not looked lately- so if your numbers are right, that just means continuing to breed animals with hip clearances is causing an increase in the number of excellently conformed hip joints in Goldens.
 
#3 ·
I'll prefaces this with I have probably only looked at maybe a 1000, maybe 1500 Goldens on OFA (far less then some on here) but the percentage of OFA ratings of Fair and Good I would think is pretty close to even. Without keeping track I feel there isn't one rating I would say I have noticed being much more frequent then the other (being fair or good rating), maybe good a little more then fair. The one you tend to notice are excellent since they really aren't very common. I rare see more then 1 or 2 dogs in any hobby breeding program that have an excellent rating.


I have never worried about a fair rating in a breeding pair that I was looking to purchase a pup from, even if both have a fair rating. Like Robin said above, passing is passing and means the hips aren't dysplastic.
 
#4 ·
We want to avoid genetic bottlenecks if at all possible. IMHO, popular sire syndrome is by far the worst for the breed. You're much better off avoiding a litter from a popular sire, or which has lot of popular sires in the pedigree, than you are buying a puppy from a dog with fair hips. And, after all, as Prism says, fair hips aren't "almost dysplastic" hips, they are passing, correct, nondysplastic hips.
 
#5 ·
For people on this forum looking for a puppy - as long as the clearances are all there, it's an easy recommend. Because a lot of people looking for pups on this forum are looking at really bad breeders sometimes. It's breeders breeding dogs with no clearances (includes prelim or none). And this sadly includes us sometimes deliberately not looking behind the parents. As long as the parents have full clearances (eyes, heart, hips, elbows), it's all good.

Fair is a passing grade, PLUS - Excellent hips can produce fair hips. Fair hips can produce excellent hips.

Personally speaking, I DO somewhat look for Excellent hips close behind my pup... if I am buying? But that's because I want a dog to have a long career in obedience and now conformation has added some pressure as far as getting more of a sure thing in something that really has no sure things?

With my Jovi (and Glee), their parents both have Good hips. And then 3 out of the 4 grandparents have Excellent hips (other gp has Good hips). That makes me somewhat happy - but it does not take the stress and uncertainty out of the equation while waiting until he's 2 to do hips/elbows.
 
#8 ·
I know this is a little bit of an older post now and I also don’t mean to derail it or hijack but you mentioned you look for better hips since you do obedience and conformation, do you think it is possibly even more important for other, possibly more active or I guess demanding, sports like agility or dock diving? I’ve been thinking of trying those with the next dog I get as well as possibly nose work or skijoring or bikejoring.

I know fairs are technically passing but it seems if they’re doing a lot of jumping and twisting or pulling it could be a bit more of a concern??

Or do you think fair hips would be perfectly fine?
 
#6 ·
OFA hip Statistics for All goldens evaluated (including pre-1990 through 2015) are:
# of Goldens evaluated: 156,606
% Excellent: 4.7
% Dysplastic: 19.9

OFA Statistics for Goldens for just the period of 2011-2015 are:
# of Goldens evaluated: 16,161
% Excellent: 8.4
% Dysplastic: 15.5

Of course it may be hard to be precise because owners may choose not to have failing x-rays submitted.

However, the huge increase in excellent ratings over time indicates to me that breeding dogs with OFA passing hips has made a huge difference over time.

You can check out these figures for Goldens and figures for other breeds on OFA the site is OFFA.org.

Thanks so much for your replies to my post.
 
#9 ·
do you think it is possibly even more important for other, possibly more active or I guess demanding, sports like agility or dock diving? I’ve been thinking of trying those with the next dog I get as well as possibly nose work or skijoring or bikejoring.
More important for agility... but quite honest, overall structure of dogs = very important for agility as well. But depends on what you are DOING in agility too. Dabbling is different than what some of the serious top level stuff people do.

Nosework is low concern. Dogs are not exactly running full distances in a nosework trial. :)

Dockdiving is as demanding as you make it.

Skijoring and bikejoring - I have no idea what either of those are without googling. But I suspect other breeds might be more idea for these things. Golden retrievers are not breeds shaped and intended for long distance running.

Excess - Jumping, twisting, pulling are negative for any joints AND muscles. You have to be in good contact with a chiropractor if these are your plans. :)
 
#12 ·
do you think it is possibly even more important for other, possibly more active or I guess demanding, sports like agility or dock diving? I’ve been thinking of trying those with the next dog I get as well as possibly nose work or skijoring or bikejoring.
More important for agility... but quite honest, overall structure of dogs = very important for agility as well. But depends on what you are DOING in agility too. Dabbling is different than what some of the serious top level stuff people do.

Nosework is low concern. Dogs are not exactly running full distances in a nosework trial. <img src="http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

Dockdiving is as demanding as you make it.

Skijoring and bikejoring - I have no idea what either of those are without googling. But I suspect other breeds might be more idea for these things. Golden retrievers are not breeds shaped and intended for long distance running.

Excess - Jumping, twisting, pulling are negative for any joints AND muscles. You have to be in good contact with a chiropractor if these are your plans. <img src="http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Thank you!! This is very helpful!!

I would mostly just be dabbling in all these sports and honestly I might not even do most of them. I’ve just always had an interest in them and the -joring stuff (more on that in a second) I just figured would be fun and good exercise for both the dog and I. But it all depends on the dog too. If they’re not interested in any of this stuff then I won’t do it either. But definitely not planning on being seriously competitive either. Mostly just dabbling in various things for fun and for the exercise and mental stimulation.

Currently I’m actually probably most interested in nose work and rally but might dabble in the other stuff.

But yeah I’d definitely find a doggie chiropractor if needed. ?

The skijoring and bikejoring thing isn’t really necessarily long distance, it can be as long or short as you make it, and with the biking one you can choose to have them next to you rather than actively pulling. Just figured it might be good exercise. But if they can’t do it I wouldn’t force them or anything. But from what I have read, any breed of dog can do it as long as they’re over about 35 pounds and like to pull. But I have a lot of other ways to exercise them that I can do instead if needed or if they’re not interested. Just figured it might be fun. Skijoring is basically just cross country skiing except the dog pulls you or at least helps (you do have to ski/help too). I wouldn’t compete in either, btw. They do have races but I don’t have any interest in that. But even the races are mostly sprints. But I’d mostly just go near my house and only go like a couple miles at most or less. Just thought it might be a fun winter sport and good exercise especially since winter is usually harder to get out. But totally understandable if it’s not the sport for us. Might actually probably be better for a breed that has tons of extra energy like even a GSP or something that’s harder to wear out haha most Goldens are pretty mellow right?

Anyway, sorry for rambling.

Thanks for all the info.

Either way, no matter what sport or hobby/exercise I chose, I’d be careful and make sure to not over exert the dog or do more than they could handle or anything like that. And if the dog showed they had no interest in it then I’d also stop pursuing that one. Wouldn’t want to force them to do anything they don’t want to do or injure them or anything like that.

That’s also why if I did do anything, I’d wait till like at least 18-24 months for their joints to close properly before doing any of the hard physical demanding sports.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Goldens aren't sled dogs.

*** I now remember where I heard about skijoring from - I have a friend who is kinda tops with Alaskan Malamutes. She's got probably the very rare record of putting MACH's and OTCH's on Malamutes. And I believe her dogs are conformation champions as well. She has a sled that she uses with her dogs, but she also does skijoring with them too.

The running joke especially for those of us with multiple goldens is put a sled or buggy behind them and really have fun. And it is very tempting - but even biking with my dogs could be kinda dangerous because they are so aware of me and are prone to double back and check on me. They could get run over. It's why the bikes for working conformation dogs have an attachment on them to keep the dogs out away from the wheels unless they are trained to run with a bike.

My guess is the same thing could happen with malamutes and huskies and saints and BMD's and so on and other dogs bred for sledding or drafting, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. LOL. Those other breeds are bred for hauling though.
 
#16 ·
Goldens aren't sled dogs.
I know that but it is quite a popular sport these days and a lot of people use all kinds of breeds and mixes for it.

I wasn’t planning to do it seriously or anything, just for some fun and exercise, but if it’s really not a good idea I won’t.

I wouldn’t want to injure them.

But all kinds of breeds do this. They don’t have to be sled dogs to do this particular one which is what I liked about it. It’s fun and good exercise.

But if it’s a bad idea I will skip it. It was just an idea I had, not necessarily one I’m actually going to do.

Nope, not really built for it. I wonder if there is a price to pay down the road.
That makes sense. Maybe longer, leaner dogs/breeds would be better for it? Though all kinds do it. But wouldn’t want to hurt them so I can skip it.

I actually don’t know if I want to do it either. Not big on cold or skiing in general. It was just an idea I had.

Not sure on the damage or if they’ve done any studies on it or anything but from what I understand running on soft ground is easier on dogs than running on hard surfaces? But idk if that’s true.

I would think maybe running alongside me rather than pulling may be a bit easier???

Which brings me to another question....

When you guys say they are not built for it, does that mean the pulling part or does that include running too?? Would running alongside or going on long hikes be easier? Or is that out too?
 
#17 ·
I think I will skip the skijor and bikejoring idea. Seems like it’s not a good idea for them and also I think their fur might catch in the harness or snow anyway. Plus it seems Goldens are usually mellow than some other breeds and might not need that extra exercise/wearing out anyway? Not that they don’t need exercise but seems simpler exercise like swimming, fetch, walks, hiking, etc. would be fine for them? I know some friends who have dogs who never seem to wear out. May be better for those kinds of dogs. Or taller, longer, leaner dogs more built for it.

Although that said, if I did do it (which I most likely won’t now), I would only probably do it a couple times a month if even that often. It would not be a regular thing at all. Just an occasional for fun thing to try and at their pace. I wouldn’t want to do it all the time or hurt them or anything.

But I do think other breeds may be more suited for it or maybe ones with slightly shorter fur or a longer build.

So I think I will consider other stuff like maybe nose work or rally.

But all of this is still just hypothetical. I don’t have a Golden or any dog atm. We put our last dog down in December and I still haven’t narrowed down a breed for the next one yet. Between several.

Anyway, thanks for all the input because I’m glad to find out now they may not be suited for it versus later if I went to try it
 
#28 ·
I think most people who are doing more "advanced" training (for lack of a better term) like agility or competition obedience or even nose work or rally are going to be very in tune with their dog, their behavior, and their movement to the point of noticing if something is wrong, no matter how slight. They may even have regular rehab/chiropractor appointments with their dog, especially if they're more serious about the sport. '

I'll give you an example. Earlier this year, I felt like Kaizer was walking a little weird. It wasn't a dramatic change, it was so slight that I thought I was seeing things. I asked my trainer to take a look, and even she couldn't really see anything wrong - she sees him 3-4x a week. Thankfully she trusts my judgement enough to ask my agility instructor to take a look (my agility instructor now anyway, she wasn't at the time). My agility instructor is a certified veterinary rehab practitioner. I walked him for her and she kinda saw something, but wasn't really sure either. She felt him, did her rehab practitioner magic, and told me he had a very, very slight iliopsoas strain. Soas strains are fairly common in agility dogs and are rarely diagnosed by practitioners (generally speaking). They can cause a ridiculous amount of pain and lameness if not caught early. Thankfully I did catch it early, and with some daily exercises, Kaizer recovered quickly and easily. I did that as an involved pet owner - I've never competed in any dog sport ever, and we only dabble a little bit in agility (weekly classes). But he did a weird thing while walking once and I noticed because I work with this dog every single day in some capacity.

IVDD has a fairly quick onset, I think, but I would think there'd be some kind of early symptom before all the really serious symptoms appear. I wouldn't know never having dealt with it. FWIW, pretty much all of my dog friends do agility and at least 4 of them have MACHs on various dogs. I've never heard any of them dealing with IVDD or an embolism.
 
#29 ·
he had a very, very slight iliopsoas strain
^^^ This is the thing I couldn't pronounce and forget about spelling without checking it. :D

More seriously talking - I've heard of this requiring surgery and ending careers. It can take a very long time to heal up.

When Bertie had a groin injury (not from dog sports, but jumping over fallen trees up in Manistee National Forest), we were convinced it was the above ailment because the first rehab vet who saw him could see he was off and saw the physical changes with the chiropractic adjustment needs (every 2-3 weeks), but couldn't find the bad spot. It was that subtle. He was describing a deep injury which if it worsened could require him being referred to a specialist and probable surgery. <= As you can guess it was a very stressful time until I got in to the rehab vet I trusted who found the bad spot.

In Bertie's case - we did laser therapy, hot and cold compresses, massages, and rest for a number of weeks until we got the green light from the rehab vet.
 
#31 ·
Yeah, soas strains can be BRUTAL if they aren't caught on time or dealt with properly. Definitely something to be aware of if your dog does any kind of high impact sport or exercise. I got lucky that Kaizer's healed as well and as quickly as it did.
 
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