Looking at Breeders For SD Prospect - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Question Looking at Breeders For SD Prospect

Hi! I am looking at two golden retriever breeders for a puppy to train to become a service dog. I have heard shady things about Great Oaks Kennels and wanted to know more about them. They seem pretty reliable and the parents are gorgeous. The puppy would be a psychiatric service dog. Which breeder would you prefer, or if you have any recommendations, tell me! State is not a problem, I will be driving to pick up the puppy. I'd prefer a litter that is ready before Feb 2019, preferably December if that helps at all
Breeders:
vailranchgoldens.com

greatoakskennel.com
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 07:15 PM
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I don't see anything about health certifications or registered names on Great Oaks site.
Vail Ranch says they will provide OFA heart, hip and eye certifications but I would ask for registered names and try to verify them yourself on OFA. If you can get the registered names someone here will help you look at them. If they give any excuse for not having them listed on OFA it would be a deal breaker for me. Also they should have elbow certifications. Hip and elbows are usually done at the same time. A hip or elbow surgery could easily cost $5000 so I wouldn't risk buying a puppy and doing all that training if the parents don't have certifications verifiable on OFA. Health guarantees are not comparable to health certifications and they just mean if the puppy you have come to love is sick they will replace it with another.
At the top of the forum on finding a good breeder are several Stickies which have good information on what to look for in a breeder.
https://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...t-checker.html (A Puppy Buyer's Fact Checker)


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 08:37 AM
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I'm not saying to can't, but it's not very likely you'll find a puppy that quickly as anything ready for December is probably already on the ground and spoken for. The large majority of quality reputable breeders have waiting lists and can be as much as 6 months to a year on a waiting list. Not trying to be a downer, but wanted you to prepare yourself expecting a puppy quickly without realizing the waiting list times can make things very frustrating.

Also, Vail Ranch Golden's has a pretty big red flag right on the home page of their site. They are advertising "English Creme" Golden's and that usually a sign of breeding for profit and not to improve the breed as reputable breeders never breed for color.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 10:19 AM
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Neither of these breeders is a good breeder. In fact both of their websites are great examples of websites that should make you run screaming in the other direction, they are so full of read flags.

Health should be important to all homes but IMHO this is critical for potential service dogs. The nature of service, the cost and the time are such that a SD prospect hit with a diagnosis like dysplsia, sub-aortic stenosis, or progressive Retinal Atrophy would be devistating.

Neither of these breeders does what a breeder with full and verifiable health certifications would do on a website. If you have them, you not only say you do but you provide a way to check them. This is as simple as providing the dogs registration name, though most will include a link right to OFA or to K9Data that then links to OFA. Neither do. Instead the first one says they have it but clearly they don’t since I found the mom to the current litter (Desert Moon Kassi Roo) and she can’t have hip or elbow certifications because she is under age. The second one makes no mention of any health certifications that I could find and hides their dogs behind call names so you can’t look them up.

Here is an example of what you should find on a website where the breeder is doing a good job with health. https://aubridgegoldens.com/our-dogs-2/our-girls/ see the full registration names? See how you click on pictures you go to K9Data that has the dog’s pedigree and health certification are in blue because they hyper link to OFA? That is what you should expect if a good breeder has a full website. Not all good breeders have a full website or a website at all. If there is just a “One sheet” with contact information, you’ll have to reach out and ask for the parents registration names. Also, consider reaching out to the local Golden Retriever clubs for referrals, you might find a great breeder without a website. I will attach some visuals below that might be helpful.

I have to agree, responsibly bred puppies are not usually available without a wait. There are more families looking than there are well bred puppies. Good breeders usually have substantial list before puppies are born and sometimes before the breeding takes place. Considering it takes 4+ months to “make” a puppy to go home, waits of 6 months or more are common with well bred puppies. You will have to be both lucky and diligent in your search if you are looking for a puppy sooner.
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Laura and the Anasazi Golden Girls
Tilt, Tizzy (the Italian) and Socks

Tilt's Pedigree
Tizzy's Pedigree
Socks’ Pedigree
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 11:18 AM
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I find Vail Goldens site hysterically funny from a 'let's see if we can associate w things that are associated w quality while not doing any of these things' way... ex: having the Master National logo on their 'babies' page. That's truly funny.
Calling themselves breeders of champions, more.. because Int CH is nothing more than an AKC Match. Everyone can leave w a CH in 2 days' shows. Their history- Yoncalla's Mike was indeed an AKC CH but he was just the sire/grandsire of their GSD... not that a dog from the 60's gives anyone any claim to fame now,especially since it's a different breed AND one they had nothing to do with the success of.
Both these breeders do not want you to be able to check their own record, so no registered names are used. Instead, a bunch of rhetoric on SDs and training neither of which they can prove they are successful with.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 11:21 AM
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Here is Kassi- too young to breed- Pedigree: Desert Moon Kassi Roo and Stella (also too young and wow- what a pedigree lol!)Pedigree: Desert Moon Stella Rose
Those are the Vail Goldens bitches.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 12:20 PM
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How can the sire and dam of their girls be "unknown" on K9data? Did they pick them up in a shelter?


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Last edited by cwag; 11-01-2018 at 12:25 PM.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 12:54 PM
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If I had to guess, I would say Brenda Pam (from the change history) is actually the owner, Brenda Russell. I'd guess she was going to input some test breedings with her and then got carried away inputting things she never had one bit of influence on as to titles "FrontTitles="9x Grand National and International Pedigree", CallName="Stella Rose", Honorifics="9x Champion Bloodlines", " and when Lesley took those off the same day, she figured some other way to do her bragging on (again) things that are nothing to give HER bitch any glory.. if I have BOMbucks I will go fill it in this afternoon. Though I honestly prefer spending them on dogs whose owners are more forthcoming and dogs who are important to our breed.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 01:12 PM
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CWAG I'm going to guess the AKC number either has a typo or fabricated? But then I'm new to k9data and curious if it only pulls from other dogs listed in this database??

I can't believe anyone would breed a dog this young! Shame on these people.

OP breeding dogs should be over 24 months

Final clearances for hip & elbows can not be done until after 24 months.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 02:53 PM
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I'm in the process now of inputting any clearances- don't expect that will take long given the pedigree.. but hey- this is not even an imported bitch as she implies, I see nothing imported in it... I'm on the 5th gen and these are US dogs. Also, I had to change her own page, seeing as the owner listed herself as 'breeder' when in fact someone else is the breeder.How does one make these errors?
Not only that, I am not buying even Int shows were done w these dogs, the names are so clearly BYB dog names...
though there was a clever person back there- his dog's name is something like Cash Crop Cream...

Last edited by Prism Goldens; 11-01-2018 at 02:57 PM. Reason: OK- any clearances in the pedigree are now on k9data.
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