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Basic Breeder Definitions

93K views 131 replies 34 participants last post by  sam34 
#1 · (Edited)
There have been numerous threads about breeders and/or finding a breeder on this site. The one thing that becomes abundantly clear is people generally do not have a clue as to what the term “Hobby Breeder” means or other types of breeders as well.

A “Hobby Breeder” is someone who actively participates in the sport of purebred dogs (and also breeds). They might be active in Conformation, but that is only one facet in the Sport of Purebred Dogs. For Retrievers, there are also many other venues to choose such as Field, Obedience, Agility, Tracking, etc. Hobby Breeders breed, raise, train and actively participate in their chosen venue with their dogs. They may only have one breeding animal or they may have several spaced a few years apart in age. “Hobby Breeders” will generally strive to produce the best dogs possible, and treat people as fairly as possible because they have a reputation to maintain within the Purebred Dog community.

“Commercial Breeders” are just what they sound like. They are farms, producing puppies as a product for market on a large scale. They are licensed and inspected by the USDA as an Agricultural operation. Commercial Breeders exist because there is a demand in the marketplace for their product. This is a dollar driven business with the bottom line driving the decision making process.

Someone who puts two intact animals of the same breed together and makes puppies as their “Hobby” is NOT a “Hobby Breeder”. They are what is referred to as a BYB “Back Yard Breeder”. Their operations are usually very small with only a dog or two, but they can sometimes be larger. BYB’s generally don’t have much invested into a litter (time, or money), and haven’t spent a lot of time learning about the breed and its potential pitfalls. They’re really rolling the dice and hoping for the best. They really have no clue about what they could get, good or bad.


A word about "Puppymills". There is no clear set definition for what constitutes a “Puppymill” It is an often used disparaging term used to malign a breeder. As the saying goes “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and a similar logic applies to the term “puppymill”. It means whatever somebody wants it to mean. Its use is more often driven by personal politics than anything else. In the most conservative rescue and shelter circles, any person that intentionally breeds even ONE litter is considered to be running a “Puppymill”. So you really have to consider the source when you hear disparaging remarks.

Do your own research and ask lots of questions.
 
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#91 · (Edited)
A Golden does not need a "mean streak" to subdue a goose, it needs to know its job and be willing to do it. Courage and attitude do not necessarily combine to make "mean." After killing the goose, the dog must naturally bring it back in its mouth without leaving a mark, that is not a dog with a "mean streak." Hostility toward prey seems to be to a meaningless idea since the ability to subdue prey is actually prey drive and has no necessary relationship to the dog's attitude about anything else.

The first sentence of the standard states in part (and before "primarily a hunting dog") displaying a kindly expression and possessing a personality that is eager, alert and self-confident. I believe the "displaying a kindly expression" implies that the dog is kind and kindness includes attributes like gentleness at least.

So the terms used in the standard to describe temperament are KINDLY, EAGER, ALERT, SELF-CONFIDENT, FRIENDLY, RELIABLE and TRUSTWORTHY. no suggestion of meanness or nastiness.
 
#94 ·
So the terms used in the standard to describe temperament are KINDLY, EAGER, ALERT, SELF-CONFIDENT, FRIENDLY, RELIABLE and TRUSTWORTHY. no suggestion of meanness or nastiness.
Well, read the standard again.

The standard does not say that the dog shall demonstrate NO hostility of any kind. It states the dog should show no hostility towards humans or other dogs.
If you're a duck, pheasant or goose you're perspective is quite different is it not. From the perspective of the prey animal, the dog is extremely hostile, as it should be.

What it comes down to is this, when the dog reaches a wounded bird and the bird flaps and prepares itself for a fight, the dog is presented with a choice. Do I square off and go in after it, or do I shy away and return to the hunter without it. In that split second where the dog is making its decision, critical elements of its temperament are revealed. Are you a hunting dog or not?

There are a LOT of Goldens that will shy away, and return to their handler without attempting to pick up the bird. These dogs do NOT possess correct temperament for a Golden Retriever.
 
#92 ·
The field pro that we train under says that, of the retrieving breeds, the goldens are the least likely to start a dog fight....and the most likely to see it thru to the end if one does start.
 
#93 ·
A Golden does not need a "mean streak" to subdue a goose, it needs to know its job and be willing to do it. Courage and attitude do not necessarily combine to make "mean." After killing the goose, the dog must naturally bring it back in its mouth without leaving a mark, that is not a dog with a "mean streak."

I do believe you have said this better. :) I would add determination.
 
#98 ·
I think what Swampy is trying to get at is not hostility in that sense of a teenager with a chip on their shoulder looking for a fight, but that soldierly attitude of getting the job done--that involves some prey aggression. And I think the other component of the point that he is making is that that sort of drive SHOULD be present in a Golden RETRIEVER, and should be a consideration in making breeding decisions. It is supposed to be a hunting dog, not a lounge-around-on-the-couch dog (although they do excel at that!) And if breeding individuals are being selected for calm passivity then we are losing something that is essential to retaining the characteristics of the breed as a gundog. More and more, I try to select for working drive in my breedings, and I have had people ask, "Well how do you place those dogs in pet homes?" Frankly, I do not place a dog of that breeding solely as a companion. I place them with people who want to do something with them. And when I get inquiries looking for "just a companion for around the house" I am clear that that is not what I am producing, and that it is not what a Golden is meant to be in my interpretation of the standard. It might be what people want, I just don't think it is what the breed is supposed to be. Are my dogs good companions in my home? Yes, but they are because of the training and activity and work that they get, and the same goes for my puppy families now.
 
#99 · (Edited)
I think what Swampy is trying to get at is not hostility in that sense of a teenager with a chip on their shoulder looking for a fight, but that soldierly attitude of getting the job done--that involves some prey aggression. And I think the other component of the point that he is making is that that sort of drive SHOULD be present in a Golden RETRIEVER, and should be a consideration in making breeding decisions. It is supposed to be a hunting dog, not a lounge-around-on-the-couch dog (although they do excel at that!) And if breeding individuals are being selected for calm passivity then we are losing something that is essential to retaining the characteristics of the breed as a gundog. ...
I have deep respect for all of the breeders who post here, not to mention gratitude that the thread remains a discussion of important issues while still being constructive. And I am struggling to find the right way to say what I feel to compelled to say in response to this. I hope you'll bear with me and not take offense.

Is it time to reconsider the idea that Goldens are "gun dogs"? How many members of the breed actually live that life now? My guess - and it is only that - is that if you polled the GRF members and the thousands who read but do not post, you would find that most Goldens today are pets who hold down a couch...who have never been near a gun and never will... that most retrieve tennis balls, not birds. Is that bad, or is it a reflection of this century instead of the last one? Or at least of urban life in this century? If Goldens continue to be bred as gun dogs, does that mean that more and more will be unsuited to the homes they inhabit and thus end up in shelters? Or do we somehow need to move towards two breeds, one of which is bred for hunters and the other for home life?

I honestly don't know what to make of this, but I hope that nobody will be offended by having the questions asked. I realize that the breed standard belongs to many, many people who are not represented here and that breeders are bound to that standard, but there must be a way to make the standard responsive to the changing needs of the breed and the times.

With abiding love for the dogs and deep respect and regard for all concerned,
Lucy
 
#100 · (Edited)
Lucy, a very valid question. I believe it was Shelly that wrote an outstanding article that explains why the same traits that make goldens good gun dogs/hunting dogs also make them outstanding family pets. (Sorry if I have the wrong author).
I don't remember a lot of what it said, but things like their intelligence, trainability, gentle mouth, non-reactivity (is that a word?) to loud noises, ability to get along with other dogs (in hunting, they will often be with other dogs they don't know, and they have to get along!), and there was a lot more, make them such great family dogs.
The goldens, as gun/hunting dogs, aren't very reactive to pain. That's pretty valuable around small children who tend to accidentally hurt them. A good hunting dog has an "off" switch, too. Think of a dog in a duck blind, they can't be jumping around, barking, acting like idiots all day. They sit quietly until told to GO, and then they pour their heart out into it until they return with the bird....then they sit quietly again.
Good hunting dogs are pretty quiet. They don't bark endlessly for no reason.
More thoughts....a good hunting dog has to have an outgoing, confident nature. No fearfulness, fear aggression, skittishness, and so on. They are happy, eager, confident dogs if they are going to succeed in the field.
While they are a very mouthy breed, they don't tend to chew up furniture and drywall like some breeds do. They learn easily what is and is not an appropriate chew item. Another characteristic necessary in a good hunting dog.
Even their willingness to retrieve things endlessly makes them wonderful pets, especially for families with children who just love to play with them.
I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this. But the traits that we value in the goldens do derive from their hunting background.
As a final thought, and yes this is going to sound like a brag, but...Tito is a fantastic hunting dog according to the people who have hunted over him. Everyone enjoys him and they often comment that most guys would give a lot to hunt over a dog like him. But he is also the easiest dog I have ever lived with. So yes, in a well bred dog, you certainly can, and should, have the traits that make a fine hunter even if the dog never hunts. And I think of Tito as the "norm" in a well bred golden, not the exception.
Now the dogs being bred to run field trials (which don't resemble hunting very much), well, that's another whole discussion. No where in the golden standard does it say "primarily a field trial dog".
 
#101 ·
Is it time to reconsider the idea that Goldens are "gun dogs"

My opinion only but no it is not a good idea to reconsider Goldens are "gun dogs".

What makes a golden retriever is the standard and being a gun dog is part of that standard.

I won't be good at explaining this as I am not an expert in science so..........

FORM follows FUNCTION

Form- The outer appearance of the dog. The total structure.
Function- what the dog has been bred to do.

If you change the function of the dog different genes will come into play and will change the look and behavior of the dog.

Over time all the things that we love about Golden Retrievers could be changed.

At this point genes can't all be picked one by one. The one that picks for the proper tail may also be connected to the how bidable the dog will be. So it is possible that if we pick for a couch potato dog we over time may end up with a dog that looks like a different dog all together. And will also act totally different.
 
#103 ·
From Hotel4Dogs: "Now the dogs being bred to run field trials (which don't resemble hunting very much), well, that's another whole discussion. No where in the golden standard does it say "primarily a field trial dog".

Don't people looking for a Golden for hunting like to see FC's and AFC's in the pedigree? What am I missing?
 
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#104 ·
From Hotel4Dogs: "Now the dogs being bred to run field trials (which don't resemble hunting very much), well, that's another whole discussion. No where in the golden standard does it say "primarily a field trial dog".

Don't people looking for a Golden for hunting like to see FC's and AFC's in the pedigree? What am I missing?
Some hunters want to see those FT titles, others want to see at least a load of MH's. The FT's themselves have generally gone beyond the realm of what you would encounter in a normal day's hunt, but the qualities which those dogs must possess to be successful in the FT game also tend to make dogs which have the perserverance and water courage to get the job done in really challenging hunting conditions. I would say that most FT bred Goldens I know are not over the top crazy maniacs--because a dog that wild has difficulty focusing, which is a definite detriment with marks as long as you see in FTs. But the mental and physical toughness that some of them have that makes them such good hunting dogs can also make them a real challenge to an inexperienced trainer/handler.
 
#105 ·
For the last year I have decided that rather than being the ideal family dogs, Goldens should be thought of as the dog for ideal families!

I loved Hotel4Dogs post.....LOVED IT!

I do think the attributes that make Goldens great personal hunting dogs is what makes them great pets as long as they get what they need, i.e., training and exercise and I do think getting enough training and exercise makes them calm, laid-back, gentle dogs. (more than puppy classes and at least 1 1/2 hours off leash running at least 5 out of 7 days a week).
 
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#107 ·
There are some people are who are starting to use Danes for hunting wild hogs again now that there is a growing problem with them in the US--and they are good at it! And I have seen that side turn on in a Dane at a show--it picked a fight with a Newfy and it was a doozy for the handlers to break up. My handler friend who bred my Cavalier started in dogs with his parents who bred Danes, and he is quite open that they did have dogs who while stable, were also game. There is a big difference between situational aggression, and just generalized reactivity, and that quest for stabilization was not just a recent thing. They may not be as ferocious as in the old old days, but that prey drive can still be present.

I also do not think the pressure to soften the temperaments of working breeds is to the degree or extent that we have been seeing with the split in Goldens. I have met too many Goldens now who are lumps of blonde fur. Just dull, and lacking in personality and joie de vivre. I am seeing this in the ring, and I am seeing it at hunt tests.
 
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#108 ·
There are some people are who are starting to use Danes for hunting wild hogs again now that there is a growing problem with them in the US--and they are good at it!...
I've been involved in Danes for 39 years and I've yet to meet anyone who hunts boar with their Dane. Now on my board, there are I think 3 people who hunt with their dog. This is out of over 20,000 members worldwide. The percentage is miniscule.

And I have seen that side turn on in a Dane at a show--it picked a fight with a Newfy and it was a doozy for the handlers to break up.
Well, yeah...of course it was a doozy to break up. You probably had over 350 lbs. of dog involved. Every breed has the capability to fight and every breed will fight. Just when 2 Giants go at it, it's a lot more obvious, so to speak. I guarantee you that the "olden" Danes would not have been capable of being around that many dogs at a time as you encounter at a show. Their temperaments would never have allowed that type of interaction.


I also do not think the pressure to soften the temperaments of working breeds is to the degree or extent that we have been seeing with the split in Goldens.
I disagree. All the responsible breeders of working breeds have a tremendous amount of pressure to continually keep their breeds' temperaments stable. In fact, all breeds are pressured in this way. Dogs have to live in a society that is much, much more populated than before. They have to have a softer temperament unless you want your breed to be obliterated by breed bans. The majority of dogs are family pets. That's the reality. "Family pet" equals a softer temperament...for all breeds.


I have met too many Goldens now who are lumps of blonde fur.
Well, I love my "lump of blonde fur" as I'm sure many others on this board do as well. ;)
 
#109 ·
I love my lump, too, she is almost 11 and I hope she is here years more. She is an easy keeper who never wrecks a thing, but she does not have the working attitude or biddability that she should. She didn't like to show. She hates birds. She worked only for food! She did not clear and so was never bred, and in retrospect I think that was for the best as a key part of the bigger picture was missing with her.
My drivey dogs still have stable temperaments. So do the dogs of my friends who do schutzhund work. I agree that any dog who has to work as a partner with people has to have a stable temperament. I just don't think we need to sacrifice the working temperament of a breed that is is still doing its intended job to make them easier to keep any more than most of us would think it appropriate to set out to breed a 110 lb Golden or a 20 lb Golden because people wanted it.
 
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#110 ·
I just don't think we need to sacrifice the working temperament of a breed that is is still doing its intended job to make them easier to keep...
In a world that exclusively used the different breeds for the purposes that they were originally intended to perform, your statement would have no argument from me. But...in reality, the majority of dogs do not perform in their original roles...they are family pets. If original temperaments were kept intact with no modifications, there would be few breeds that would be able to fulfill a pet/companion status and I really don't think everyone here would want a Pug, (I would, though. ;))

Should only hunters own Goldens, Labs, Poodles, Wolfhounds? That is, after all, their intended purpose, right? Only boar hunters own Danes? Only ranchers own Border Collies? The list could go on and on and on. By taking their original temperaments down a few notches, many breeds can now live contently as companions. There will always be those Goldens with a higher drive, but does it have to be all Goldens?

I guess I'm grateful to those breeders that have/breed calmer Goldens. I don't hunt and I never will. It doesn't appeal to me on any level. But Goldens sure do...I'm very glad they're not all high drive or I wouldn't have one. And that would be awful. :no:
 
#113 · (Edited)
whew, we're going to get into some sticky territory here.
My personal opinion is that the only way we're going to be able to do that is if breeders quit breeding for "just one thing", be that looks, agility, obedience, field, whatever. Of course, that will never happen. But when you breed for just one thing, the others seem to fall by the wayside and we end up with goldens who are no longer the versatile dog they originally were.
As always, I like to use Tito as an example. Most people here know his "story", but if not....he was bred to be a nice structured pet with a good temperament. Nothing more. I bought him as a pet for my daughter, originally on a limited registration with a neuter contract (which was obviously since lifted). I had no plans to do anything with him except love him.
He wasn't bred to be a show dog. He wasn't bred to be a field dog. Etc., etc., etc.
But look at what he has been able to accomplish. If you look at his pedigree, there is nothing in there that would foretell of what he has done.
He was bred to be a versatile companion dog, and he is what people call an "old-fashioned golden retriever". He is what the breed used to be.
So why has Tito been so successful? Lord knows it's not ME, I've never done any of this before with my dogs.
Because he is to the golden standard in ALL ways.
He succeeds in obedience because he is intelligent and highly trainable,and because like all good gun dogs, he is not overly reactive to the environment, and he is able to focus well. He isn't at all fearful or skittish, and he gets along fine with all other dogs.
He succeeds in agility because he's a medium sized, well muscled, athletic dog. Again, as per the standard. Also, the ability to focus is very important in agility.
He succeeds in the field because he has tremendous prey drive, and tons of bird instinct. He has a natural love of water, and the gentle mouth that the breed is supposed to have.
And that is why we need to breed the dogs to ALL of the standard, not just to the physical part of it.
Tito truly can and will do anything that is asked of him, and as I said before, I believe him to be the norm for a well bred golden, not the exception.


Also, the LRCA (labradors) have done that, requiring at least a WC (working certificate) of their dogs. So what ended up happening is the WC for labradors got dumbed down to the point that I think my cat probably could have passed.
 
#114 ·
Do you feel that Tito is the exception or that more people don't go the different routes with their Goldens? I'm not talking the conformation ring, I know that hardly any of our pet Goldens would do well there, mine included. That doesn't happen too often in any breed and those dogs that were determined to be pets but go on to their CH. are unusual. But maybe if given the chance, a lot of Goldens would do good in the field. But because the majority of owners choose not to go that route with their dogs, we'll never know.

I can say for sure that Chance would freak at the sound of a gun being fired, (me, too). But then again, he's never been exposed, especially at an early age. I know that he's extremely "interested" in birds, (and squirrels ;)). So who knows, right? Maybe our "pet" Goldens would do well in the field if given the opportunity...
 
#115 · (Edited)
I think my girl Winter and I are the poster children for giving dog games a try.
At the tender age of 49, I got my first dog ever. She was acquired as a pet, nothing really performance in her pedigree. I believe we told her breeder that we were looking for a light colored puppy, who would swim, play fetch, and would be easy going. I took her to puppy obedience so we would have a well behaved girl. It turned out that I loved taking classes with her so I just kept signing up. One thing led to another and on her first birthday we ended up at a field training day. That day I watch something amazing click on in Winter. This was a game she already knew how to play. Fast forward 2+ years and we are one pass away from her Senior Hunter title and she still amazes me. No FC's, MH, or even JH in her pedigree. I think there is one WC in 5 generations but the retriever is alive and kicking in her.
So I say, what the heck give field or some other dog game a try.
 
#116 ·
Karen, I strongly feel that Tito is NOT the exception. Not at all. I think a lot of the pet goldens, which is all he was meant to be, would be capable of doing many, many things if people chose to follow that path. And we need to be sure in our breeding practices that the breed never loses that ability and versatility.
Like Holly's Winter, another prime example. She is doing field, and obedience. I'm positive she could do agility, too.
No, they can't all be CH. But if they are well bred goldens, they can get out there and do a lot of other doggie games, and do them well, and have a great time doing it. And the bond we form with our dogs when we do these things is incredible.
 
#117 ·
Another thing that I was thinking...in all the years I managed pet shops, the majority of my customers with Labs hunted. I'd say at least 65% and that's a conservative estimate. My customers with GSPs, it had to be at least 85%. Goldens, not that many. I'd give it a guess of 25%, if that. Again, I'm sure that many more had the capabilities to do field work, but they were not utilized in that venue, but other breeds were.

I also remember that when I first started working in shops, over 35 years ago, we regularly carried and sold out of duck scent, pheasant scent and rabbit scent. And we couldn't keep the bumpers in stock, either. No matter how many we carried, they would sell out. But over the past, at least 20 years, I don't remember ever selling or stocking the scents in any other stores I worked at. The training bumpers yes, we carried them, but hardly ever sold one. Maybe they're buying these things elsewhere, IDK. Still, I was never even asked about them, ever.
 
#119 ·
Here are a few things that have come up here lately-
1. OFA prelims do not come in 'ranges' like, "OFA prelim fair to good"... they just don't.
2. CH pedigree means nothing. Effectively, every single dog has a CH somewhere back there, and if a breeder isn't putting AKC or Canadian CH on their dogs, no other CH means much, and they are adding value that probably isn't deserved. AKC CH sire or CH dam does mean something.
3. DNA is not a clearance. There are very few diseases we have DNA testing for, and DNA is just a tool to avoid creating affected for those diseases.
4. Prelims are not clearances. Only 24+mo of age evals count.
5. Color breeders are not good breeders. I literally cannot think of a single one who mentions 'eng creme, white goldens, whatever' on their site who are good breeders. Coincidentally, many of these also have Bible verses throughout. I see Bible verses as red flags (meant to comfort the viewer as to the breeder's honesty).
6. Titles matter. Without involvement through competition, a breeder does not have any way of judging their animals besides their own faulty eyes.
7. There is NO reason to breed underaged, ever.
8. Elbows- Goldens are sporting dogs. Failed elbows are failed because of structure and not because they ran stairs as a pup or stepped in a hole as a young dog. If whatever accident is being claimed doesn't have backup via ortho vet, it is probably imaginary and an excuse to breed anyway a dog with less than solid joints.
9.practitioner (pet vet) heart exams are fine for some breeds, but NOT Goldens. Yes, OFA will issue a cert done by a p(ractitioner) rather than a c(ardiologist)- but that doesn't mean it is adequate. It's not, it never will be.
10. importing of uteruses from eastern Europe to use to make white dogs is not good practice.
 
#120 ·
1. OFA prelims do not come in 'ranges' like, "OFA prelim fair to good"... they just don't.
2. CH pedigree means nothing.
3. DNA is not a clearance.
4. Prelims are not clearances.
5. Color breeders are not good breeders.
6. Titles matter. Without involvement through competition, a breeder does not have any way of judging their animals besides their own faulty eyes.
7. There is NO reason to breed underaged, ever.
8. Elbows- Goldens are sporting dogs. Failed elbows are failed because of structure.
9. Practitioner (pet vet) heart exams are fine for some breeds, but NOT Goldens.
10. importing of uteruses from eastern Europe to use to make white dogs is not good practice.
Thank you so much for all the time you've spent here over the past 10 years educating people and trying to do right by the dogs.
 
#121 ·
Quick question - is there anything inherently wrong with getting a puppy from a backyard breeder, if you’ve observed the living environment of the dam and litter, and you’ve observed that all of the health clearances for both parents are in place? The breeder in question does not show or compete with their goldens. They produce about 1 litter per year. They board goldens in their home as a side job in addition to breeding/their other jobs. I am feeling wary because all of the other breeders we have considered either show or compete. But does this matter??
 
#123 ·
Rarely are the health clearances actually complete in these situations. If they truly are, good on you, and go for it.
 
#124 ·
Thank you for your responses! This was a hypothetical question as the breeder I am considering SAID they have all clearances in place but has not shared them with us yet. If/when they do I will post them
on this forum to let the experts tell me if they are actually and truly in place and complete. I just asked because even without the clearances in front of me yet, I didn’t know if JUST being a “backyard breeder” (vs. a hobby breeder that shows or competes) was enough to pass on this litter. Or if I am being too picky (if everything else checks out?) For reference, they are asking 3,000 for a pup which is the same price I am seeing from breeders who show and compete etc.

We are waiting to hear back regarding another litter from a very reputable breeder who was highly recommended on this forum (who shows and competes - I will post a follow up if we get confirmation that we can get a pup from that litter!) so I am hoping all of this will be a moot point and we will get a puppy from the breeder I am feeling more sure about. But in case we don’t, I just wanted to check if I am being too picky saying no to this other litter from a BYB (assuming all clearances are good).
 
#125 ·
I would not assume all the clearances are good on the BYB especially if they aren't immediately sharing the clearances with you. It is just one in a hundred of these types of breeders have all the necessary clearances. Or they have a foggy notion of what clearances are (hips? vaccines? a vet exam? all clearances to them!), and will tell you they do have clearances because it's the answer you want to hear. They couldn't tell you what all those clearances are if their life depended on it. If it is newspaper pedigree with actual clearances, $2000 is a reasonable price to pay. For $3000 you can get a pup from Champion parents with all clearances for generations.
 
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#129 ·
Nothing comes up in OFA for Sadie's Macie May, so at the moment I would assume she has NONE of the required clearances (if there's a chance the name is spelled wrong, we can check by AKC registration number if you can provide it).

Here is a link to the sire's OFA page: Advanced Search | OFA
Nothing but a heart clearance and out of date eyes.

So, no, neither parent has complete clearances.

As far as buying from a backyard breeder with all clearances (which will be very hard to find)... One of the things you are losing out on is an independent assessment of whether or not the parent dogs have conformational flaws (because they've never been assessed in a show ring), or have a biddable temperament or intelligence (because they've never been trained beyond basic house manners, and rarely interact with anyone outside their own home). There's a reason that responsible hobby breeders are also referred to as "preservation breeders." Their goal is not to just produce golden retriever puppies. It's to produce the BEST golden retriever puppies. Ones that are everything that makes the breed special... and more.
 
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#130 ·
I couldn't find anything in K-9 Data for Sadies Macie May
Baxter has eyes that are 5 years old and a heart certification but no hips or elbows which would be a hard no for me
The GRCA Code of Ethics for Breeders requires a yearly eye exam by an ophthalmologist, a one time heart exam by a cardiologist and hip and elbow clearances.
 
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