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My First Post - When does it get better?

7K views 76 replies 23 participants last post by  Karen519 
#1 ·
Hello everyone. I am here trying to find comfort and guidance on my journey through grief for our dog Jasper, 1/15/99 - 12/12/11 (he was not quite 13). The tears still run down my cheeks as I write this.

First, here is Jasper:

Dog Mammal Vertebrate Dog breed Canidae


Dog Canidae Golden retriever Dog breed Companion dog


Dog Mammal Vertebrate Dog breed Canidae


Canidae Dog Yellow Dog breed Carnivore


His mom was a Golden, and his father was unknown. We got him as an 8-week-old rescue. And virtually as soon as we took that little bundle of fur home, I knew I loved him so much that I would surely suffer at some then-inconceivable day when we lost him. That time came a little over 12 months ago. I had retired two years before he died, and spent every day with him, nursing him through old age, arthritis, degenerative peripheral neuropathy--I took him to swim therapy twice weekly for months; to acupuncture--both of these an hour's drive from home. He was holding his own--the neurologist was so pleased because he was adding muscle through his swimming. And then he got an inoperable brain tumor.

The memory of those times is still so very with me--the time we spent together, the swimming, the vet visits, his last awful illness. I wished with all my heart that we wouldn't be forced to make that awful final decision, but--we did have to, finally.

We cancelled Christmas and went to a little resort in the mountains just to get away from home. Here I was--and I still look a bit like this, shellshocked:

(I'm sorry, I can't get the picture in the right place--it's at the end. Also, I meant only to post one--slow learner; sorry.)

I am just so sad without my Jasper. He literally nursed me through two surgeries, including a hip replacement--wouldn't leave my side. I miss my baby dog.

My husband is, I think, pretty tired of my apparently-unending grief.

We do not have another dog. We tried to get a puppy this past fall, and an awful thing happened; she had an aggression problem and was snapping and biting at 8 weeks; our vet urged us to return her to the breeder, so that she could be placed with people who had the skills to handle the puppy. I was heartbroken and don't think I've recovered from that, either. Thank goodness a suitable home was found for her. The breeders were awful about it, though.

At this point, I think I could love another dog--and Jasper was such a Golden, in spite of his mixed background--but I am just too scared and burned to know how to proceed. I see the pictures of your Goldens, and I envy you all; I would give anything to have four muddy paws running through my family room, fur flying into every corner; to hear my dog's soft breathing in our room at night as we all sleep.

I'm sorry I sound so sad and helpless! I'm not normally like this, but that pup was the light of my life. Any advice or comfort anyone could offer would be very appreciated.
 

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#27 ·
Warning: long, rambling, sad post

I keep coming back to this thread and reading the new replies, and I am actually sitting here reading with tears streaming down my face. You are all so kind. Pardon my getting confused on names, because when I get all sad like this my memory is even less good than usual, but someone said they had lost their dog just about the same time we did, in late 2011--and has had some health problems, as I also have--that really resonated with me. Someone lost their dog only recently, but is generously consoling me--when I've had over a year to learn to cope.

Many of you have mentioned rescue. Rescue appeals to me; Jasper was a rescue, even though he was just a baby puppy, but he was such a Golden and I just want a Golden...he was so sweet, and so loving, and so smart. We support rescue, through donations; also the ASPCA and Humane Society.

But I am just so terrified of adopting another dog and getting attached and losing him or her and going through this again.

What my dream is, is that we would get a pup, and then we would volunteer to foster Goldens. We have fenced in our quite-large back yard, and I would love to have more than one dog. My husband, though, doesn't even want one any more--it may be the trauma of all we've been through with losing Jasper, my extreme grief, the problem with the puppy and the breeder, and my continuing extreme grief...my husband was sad for a few weeks, but then said he was pretty much over it and had only happy memories, whereas those memories were (and still are) making me cry. In this way, we are not in "sync." He has a (grown) child, and I don't have children; I guess that may be some of the difference, as Jasper was my baby; he really was.

I do not differentiate between dogs and people in terms of how much love I can feel for them, I guess. They are both just sentient beings to me, both capable of loving and being loved.

Anyway, I am afraid of getting an older, only dog and losing him or her again so soon; I am not sure I could handle it well at all. But my husband hasn't said no to fostering after getting a puppy, and I think he would do it. He IS a dog person and he also thinks that Goldens are...he says "now that's a REAL dog" when he talks about Goldens. With a pup and a foster, we would have a young dog and an older one, and maybe he would grow attached to both dogs, and...it's a hope, anyway, and I think it's not an unreasonable one--he IS a dog person. Having suddenly no dog, when the dog is a huge part of your daily life, is so very difficult. There is a terrible void.

Can I tell you more about why I'm paralyzed? I greatly fear judgment, but I need to get this off of my chest with people who know something about dogs and breeders.

This is about the puppy we had for less than a week. I thought I would fall in love with the puppy instantly, I was so anxious to get her, it was like I was obsessed with getting her, hiring a trainer to visit during her first few days, and buying everything that a puppy could possibly need for a year. I researched foods, subscribed to the Whole Dog Journal, and just really could not wait to take her home. I thought it would help relieve that terrible void I felt; I genuinely thought I would love her as quickly as I had Jasper.

Then when we did take her home--she was not like any other puppy I ever knew. She was only 8 weeks old, but she was very aggressive and resource-guarding. She was not affectionate; she ran around the back yard eating dirt and all sorts of plants in a kind of wild manner. She tried to chew an electrical cord (normal) and when my husband took it away from her, she freaked out and growled and snapped at him--I don't mean in a little puppy manner, either. She absolutely wouldn't go in her crate, but would shriek if you tried to put her in it, and not let up. You could lure her in (the trainer showed me how) but as soon as you shut the door and took a few steps away, she completely freaked out and shrieked horribly without stopping. I was going to a doctor's appointment and my husband was staying with her, but there was a 20-minute gap between when he needed to leave and when I would get home. He put her in her crate, and as soon as I drove up the driveway--before she could have known I was there--I heard her shrieking continuously and horribly.

The trainer I'd hired made a home visit the day she came home with us, and she was pretty concerned about the puppy. The breeder had warned us that "this litter were pretty full of themselves" and that if the puppy growled at us or bit us, to use alpha rolls; I was horrified at the very thought of doing this. The trainer was very experienced and an advocate of using only positive training methods. There was no way I was going to alpha-roll any dog--that is just not me--much less an 8-week-old puppy. She also refused to eat the kibble the breeders sent her home with. I was afraid she would starve.

Anyway, the trainer was worried when she heard and saw the difficulty we were having. She came back a couple of days later to see how it was going. During this time, my husband took her outside to poop, and (again, normal) she turned around and started eating her feces. He tried to distract her with a toy and that didn't work, so he picked her up gently and--she freaked out, growling, snapping and trying to bite him--NOT bitey puppy bites, which Jasper was the master of (one of his nicknames all of his life was "Biteydog;" how he did love those play bites). The puppy's were serious bite attempts which only her age prevented from being genuinely dangerous.

Anyway, the trainer happened to be there when this happened, and she offered to call our vet and discuss her concerns with him. I was so blown away. I did take her for her scheduled vet appointment and our vet tried to interact with the puppy and she really wouldn't do it; she just wanted to sit in the corner with her ball.

The vet told us in no uncertain terms that "this puppy is going to break your heart" and predicted that she would bite my husband (she was less aggressive with me). He told us she needed an experienced dog person to raise her, someone who could work with her around her problem behaviors so she did not turn out to be aggressive and a biter. He said he could hardly recall any normally-nurtured, 8-week-old puppy aggressively snapping and biting.

With a broken heart, we returned the puppy. The breeders were very hostile. although our vet offered to explain his concerns to them, I don't think they called him. I begged them to tell me when they'd found a good placement for her, and to their credit, they did let me know. They told me that nothing was wrong with her, that it was completely our fault. I was so worried about the puppy I actually wanted them to be right; then I was so confused I didn't know what to think. I think my husband was torn between believing what the professionals said and thinking that maybe I just couldn't bond with her because she wasn't Jasper.

I just pray that that puppy is ok and it will work out with her in this placement. I never in a million years thought I would return a dog--heck, I stop everyone I see walking a dog now, wanting to pet and caress a dog. I think this incident--having to come to terms with the decision we ultimately made--was just as hard on my husband as it has been on me.

Has anyone ever had an experience like this? Maybe I can't get another dog until I work this out, how I could give up a beautiful little Golden puppy (her name was "Lily"). Help, folks.

If you've hung on this long, bless you, and I apologize for rambling. In a way, we've had two losses, and it's hard to forgive myself for the second. The vet said her problems were likely "genetic." But knowing that my husband had the thought that I had problems with her because she wasn't Jasper--I guess I feel unsure of so many things. Thanks for listening.
 
#31 ·
Jane

Jane

You won't be able to reply by private msg. to a private msg. until you have 15 posts. You have 10 posts now, so need 5 more. If you give Claire's Friend and Sheldon's Mom your email then can reply to you that way, or post to them in Jasper's thread here.
 
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#32 ·
Jane:
In regards to the little puppy you had for a short time: I have never personally had an experience like this but many here on the forum have. Some pups are just wired wrong, and the aggression escalates as they get older and bigger. A vet and an experienced trainer told you this was not a normal puppy. It was not your fault. You are ready for a puppy, you just need to find the right one, and there are many here that can help you with this.
I'm 62 and retired and even though I do a lot of other stuff, my dog is a big part of my day so I can definitely understand that as well as the huge emotional void, there is also the "so what am I supposed to do with myself" feeling.
I hope your ankle is healing nicely. Start searching for your pup and planning for his or her arrival.
 
#34 ·
Hi ClairesFriend,

I understand that I don't yet have enough posts to reply to your PM. So my answer would be, would you tell me (in a PM) whether the breeder has a website or questionnaire, whether s/he accepts visitors to her kennels, whether it's possible to meet one or both of the parents, clearances--and anything else you think is significant.

Please, anyone, I am open to advice. I had thought I did a good search before with the pup, Lily, who didn't work out. And I failed miserably.
 
#35 ·
Jane, so sorry to read that Jasper is now at the bridge. They leave such a massive hole in our lives when they leave us because they give their love so unconditionally. Sadly we have been through 4 losses, and as a kid I lost my first golden at just over 12 months old when he bit my brother, and the pain and hurt doesn;t lessen but we get better at coping with it. We don;t have children, so I suppose our dogs have become our "kids", and there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them.

To let another dog - whether it be a golden or something else - into your lives helps enormously, because it gives you something else to concentrate on - sadly it seems like the pup you had to send back just wasn;t meant to be and personally have never had a problem with any of our pups, but there will probably more experienced people who may be able to offer advice . Try and keep your happy memories in your mind - they will help you through these tough times

Run free, play hard with friends and sleep softly Jasper
 
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#36 ·
Hi Sheldon's Mom,

Ah, a fellow soul who's passed that magic milestone of 60! Although, since I posted recent pictures of myself at the end of my first thread, that's likely pretty obvious. It's not hard to post pictures IF you have them on your computer. But you've already been told this, I'm sure. I'd love to see pictures of your babies!
 
#37 ·
hi goldensmum,

it staggers my imagination to think of losing four beloved dogs. jasper is my first. my sincere condolences--you must be a resilient person.

I'm still very conflicted about returning the puppy. I keep thinking what the breeders clearly implied--that it was our fault somehow. They denied that the behaviors I was describing ever happened, and that through their additional training with her (they're into alpha rolls and the like) she became the perfect pup. She was certainly beautiful and smart. I just pray her placement now is a good one for her. Also I hope it will not be a "bad mark" on our record in terms of getting another dog.
 
#41 ·
Jessie's Girl,

Thank you for your kind words about the puppy. I know I had expert advice, but it still remains a nightmarish memory. I could kind of tell she wasn't really "normal" but maybe the transition from her kennel to our home was part of her problem...I just don't know. In the end I followed the advice of the vet and the trainer. Then I thought, did I overreact and somehow mislead them? The trainer did see some of the behavior, though--a lot--and the vet evaluated her. But was he just being sympathetic to us because we were old customers (had known us all Jasper's life) and having a hard time? I'm full of doubts, I guess.

I'd love to hear from anyone who's had this experience. I think part of, a large part of, our problem is that my husband and I shared a philosophy of "She's our dog now." As though she had been a child born into our family, once we took her home, we felt that we should have dealt with whatever problems she had. And we failed to do that.

But I know it was obvious to the vet and the trainer that we couldn't handle her. The trainer is experienced--writes a column on dogs and dog training for our local paper, and is a well-known (locally) advocate of positive training methods for dogs--which is the only type of training I think I'm capable of providing a dog; I just cannot use harsh or negative punishments. I mean, I couldn't and didn't even say "bad dog" to Jasper (well, maybe once when he was running out into the street--and he immediately hit the ground and rolled over on his back; I felt awful). I would usually just distract him and remove whatever temptation was causing him to, ah, deviate from desirable behavior. This worked fine with Jasper although he was definitely indulged...

But as a puppy he was laid back--never had resource guarding issues, never whined a single time in his crate, even the first night home--quite an easy puppy, I know that. He WAS quite, quite bitey, humped his toys like crazy, and was charged with energy, and I must say we didn't do much to discourage him since he had enormous control of his bite. It was just a please-play-with-me bite with a very soft mouth. Well, except for those little milk teeth (ouch!). I did sustain quite a few bruises from them, but it was really all in fun and under control.

Anyway, with the new puppy, both of them--the vet and the trainer--could see that I was the wrong person to deal with a puppy with Lily's issues. But I worry about her. I was beginning to bond with her, although to be honest it took a few days. That horrified me too, because with Jasper, bonding had happened so, so fast. And then we returned her...it was so, so hard.

But thank you--bless you! -- for listening and giving me some reassurance.
 
#42 ·
Jane

Jane

You have 15 posts now, so now you can reply to someone if they send you a private message. As far as the puppy Lily, don't blame yourself. It probably was genetics and out of anyone's control and I trust the breeder will find her a good home. There is no need to blame yourself, at all.
 
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#43 ·
Yes, Lily has a home now and the breeder says she's doing well. That did help. They kept her until she was about 14 weeks old for what they described as "boot camp." I don't even want to go there--I had a bad feeling about them from day one, but I ignored it. And gosh, did they have beautiful dogs, big square-headed dogs.

Thanks, very kindly Karen519, for letting me know I can PM! I wish I'd found this site a year ago.
 
#46 ·
Jane, I, too, am 60 and lost my heart dog after nursing him through degenerative myelopathy. He was 14, and that was in 2005. I couldn't breathe for six months, and my husband was convinced I needed a psychiatric hospital because I could not move past the catastrophic grief that was my reaction to his death. Eventually, the silence in my house drove me to seek another dog, who I got through Golden Retriever Rescue of the Rockies. Finn is now ten, but he was almost 3.5 when I adopted him. His previous owners had broken his back with something hard, like a baseball bat or a pipe. We had spinal surgery (big $$$) on him and he's been fine ever since. He did, indeed help my heart to heal. A new dog will not replace Jasper, but instead, will honor him.

As for your horrible puppy experience, was this a reputable breeder? A good, experienced breeder knows that sometimes a dog is simply wired wrong and there is nothing you can do about it. I would suggest you read everything there is to read on choosing a golden in this forum, including all the information on how to find a reputable breeder, just for your own information. The, take advantage of the offers to help you find a good breeder in your area. I am truly sorry that you lost your heart dog. That degree of joy always results in that degree of sorrow, but personally, I wouldn't trade the joy for anything, including the devastating grief.
 
#48 ·
Jane, I, too, am 60 and lost my heart dog after nursing him through degenerative myelopathy. He was 14, and that was in 2005. I couldn't breathe for six months, and my husband was convinced I needed a psychiatric hospital because I could not move past the catastrophic grief that was my reaction to his death....I am truly sorry that you lost your heart dog. That degree of joy always results in that degree of sorrow, but personally, I wouldn't trade the joy for anything, including the devastating grief.
I think you understand.Finn'sFan. Degenerative myelopathy is like peripheral degenerative neuropathy; at least the treatments that the veterinary neurologist prescribed were based on that awful disease. And Jasper was holding his own, with his swimming, antioxidant and acupuncture/Chinese herbal medicine therapies (oh what I went through to try to get him to swallow all of those pills). Then he developed a brain tumor, and that was that.

I can relate to what you say about your husband thinking you needed a psych hospital! The grief that one experiences is so, so difficult. And I agree with you--I wouldn't trade my time with J-dog for anything; it was worth the misery and suffering.

I just wish I could have an hour of time with him now or then, to get through it...

We'll get another dog. It's just that I still want to talk a little about my Jasper.
 
#47 ·
So sorry for your loss of Jasper, he looks like such a beautiful and gentle boy. Sorry about your issues with the pup aswell but if it wasn't working then you did the right thing.

We lost our heart dog Daisy aged 3 a year ago and it has been heartbreaking without her. She was our world and we miss her so much. We never thought we would be able to face having another dog again. However, after finding this forum and receiving lots of wonderful support from the people on here we started looking to see if there were any litters in our area. We are picking up a little boy very soon. We will always miss Daisy terribly but hope that she will be happy for us loving another golden.
 
#49 ·
Oh, HolDaisy...your story is breathtakingly sad. What a gloriously gorgeous soul she was.

I hope to read your post one of these days when you get your little boy. Doesn't change a thing in terms of your feelings about Daisy, I know. But I remember my vet telling me that I would need to fill "the void." And that's what this is--I never dreamed that an entire year, almost 13 months would go by and I'd still feel like this.

But I do think it's going to be better.
 
#51 ·
Thank you all so much, and...we did it...

Hello everyone who has been so kind to me as I related the story of losing our dog, Jasper, 13 months ago and the anguishing grief I have experienced ever since. My shrink says it is worse if you're childless (I am), and I believe it.

Anyway, I have news!! I searched this forum for breeder recommendations and came up with 3; contacted them all and one of them--Kyon Kennels in Shelburne, Ontario (an hour north of Toronto) has a litter of five-week-old puppies with a couple of available males. The others had puppies planned for spring and summer. After only 2 days of discussion, on our wedding anniversary my husband looked at me and said "let's make the decision today, on a special day." And a few minutes later I picked up the phone and called Kyon back and -- well, we're on our way to getting a pup in the next three weeks (or 4--exact date not set). My husband will fly up there and bring the puppy back in the cabin of the plane under his seat.

It feels right, although in some ways I'm--well, wary because of our recent problem with the puppy that didn't work out, and even moreso because I am clearly still grieving the loss of Jasper. Tell me this works out, folks! You do "fall in love" again, right? Without loving them less, and without feeling guilty about loving another dog?

We have a name for him and are just waiting for a pickup date...
 
#53 ·
Jane

Hello everyone who has been so kind to me as I related the story of losing our dog, Jasper, 13 months ago and the anguishing grief I have experienced ever since. My shrink says it is worse if you're childless (I am), and I believe it.

Anyway, I have news!! I searched this forum for breeder recommendations and came up with 3; contacted them all and one of them--Kyon Kennels in Shelburne, Ontario (an hour north of Toronto) has a litter of five-week-old puppies with a couple of available males. The others had puppies planned for spring and summer. After only 2 days of discussion, on our wedding anniversary my husband looked at me and said "let's make the decision today, on a special day." And a few minutes later I picked up the phone and called Kyon back and -- well, we're on our way to getting a pup in the next three weeks (or 4--exact date not set). My husband will fly up there and bring the puppy back in the cabin of the plane under his seat.

It feels right, although in some ways I'm--well, wary because of our recent problem with the puppy that didn't work out, and even moreso because I am clearly still grieving the loss of Jasper. Tell me this works out, folks! You do "fall in love" again, right? Without loving them less, and without feeling guilty about loving another dog?

We have a name for him and are just waiting for a pickup date...
Jane: I couldn't be happier for you!!! I'm with Danny, it will most definately work out. You will FALL in love again-don't expect that your new boy will be just like Jasper, as they are all lovable and special in their own way! Where does your Hubby have to fly to?
 
#52 ·
Tell me this works out, folks! You do "fall in love" again, right? Without loving them less, and without feeling guilty about loving another dog?
Absolutely so. :) When our first golden, Buddy, died we faced similar questions of ourselves. We decided that we'd be honoring his memory by helping another golden have a good life and have adopted 2 more goldens since then, one of whom is laying at my feet now.

When a golden goes, they leave a big void because they fill up lives and houses with love. One has never replaced another, nor have they diminished the love and memories of others that came before.

Congratulations on your new puppy!! Everything will be fine. You'll love him just as much as Jasper. They're like kids. Each a unique individual with its own personality. We'd love to see some pictures of your new little golden bundle of love when you get him home. So glad you found GRF.com. Lots of blessing pass through this site because of the wonderful members who frequent it. Nice to have you among us:D
 
#54 ·
Hello Danny,

I just read much of your thread on your dog, Andy. I'm hoping with all my heart that his time with you stretches out to the horizon, and that his love filling your house continues for a long time to come. And congratulations on your new adoption! I loved the video of Claire's Mom's surprise package opening. You and your wife are amazing, kind people.

Thank you for your kind and reassuring words about Jasper and about our new pup to come. We are optimistic, but unfortunately it can't be like when we adopted Jasper--I know too much, have been through too much...!

But your reassuring words DO help. You are right--our new puppy will not replace our Jasper; he will be his own dog. And we will not stop loving Jasper, or Jasper's memory...love doesn't end, does it?
 
#55 ·
Thank you Karen519! You are so often the first to be there with words of comfort and well wishes too. I really appreciate it.

I will be posting pictures when our puppy comes home. I'm enjoying looking at pictures of the litter the breeder sent. We just told him what we wanted in our puppy and will let him match us up with the right one. Keep your fingers crossed for luck for us!
 
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