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post #91 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 04:46 PM
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Megora, I totally agree. Cross breeds are much more common. It seems the genetics from a black lab makes them black, while the hair length is determined by the golden retriever. But well-bred flatcoats have a different face, which is unlike labs or goldens. I always wanted to own one.
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post #92 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:04 AM
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Actually, it is not possible even in the 1 in a million numbers for a pure bred Golden to be totally black. Goldens are genetically black but in the recessive form, which makes yellow coat color. You can get black spot phenomenon which could have fairly large black spots, but those are from a somatic mutation where a cell mutates from the recessive yellow to the dominant coat color which is black but NO Golden Retriever has the dominant allele or they themselves would be black since it is dominant. The mutation that causes spotting is something that happens during development. But a totally black dog would require an actual allele being dominant- which is something that is heritable since all dogs inherit one allele from each parent of each pair.
Anney Doucette (forum member) wrote a really understandable article on this for the GRN. You might try to locate it.

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post #93 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:19 AM
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post #94 of 95 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim123 View Post
Megora, I totally agree. Cross breeds are much more common. It seems the genetics from a black lab makes them black, while the hair length is determined by the golden retriever. But well-bred flatcoats have a different face, which is unlike labs or goldens. I always wanted to own one.
Well, because black is dominant, a black Labrador male can also carry the recessive brown or yellow genes. So, such a black Lab male, bred to a golden, would likely produce some black as well as golden pups. Case in point, my Bagheera was created from a black Lab father and a normal golden retriever mother. Out of 13 pups, only 2 were black.
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post #95 of 95 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 11:43 AM
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"Well, because black is dominant, a black Labrador male can also carry the recessive brown or yellow genes. So, such a black Lab male, bred to a golden, would likely produce some black as well as golden pups. Case in point, my Bagheera was created from a black Lab father and a normal golden retriever mother. Out of 13 pups, only 2 were black."

In my understanding it doesn't matter whether black is dominant. It is the "e" loci that determines the color of a golden retriever. For a golden retriever to be any shade of gold they must have a double recessive "ee". All purebred goldens have the ee. The black labrador had to have at least one recessive e. His e loci would look like this "Ee". When mating with the golden for 11 of those 13 pups he gave the recessive "e" . This means that 11 of the pups got a recessive e from both parents. "ee", This is why they are gold. The two black pups got a recessive "e" from mom and a dominant "E" from the Labrador making them a "Ee".

The "B" locus comes into play when you are dealing with purebred labradors.

Coat Colour Genetics in Retrievers

All Golden Retrievers are ee.

All Yellow Labrador Retrievers are ee.


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