Figured there's enough experienced breeders here that I can get some imput.

Storm (foster mom) and pups have been doing well. Pups are on soaked kibble and eating and drinking. Gaining and growing.

However there are some 'issues' around mom. Storm, for whatever reason seems to insist that she lay and nurse the pups in the shavings, where they are supposed to potty (and do so well during the daytime). She'll clean up the poops and lay in the stinky shavings with the pups. I've tried giving her space outside of the potty area with blanket, bare floor, and the crate with lots of dry clean shredded paper, no difference, she lays in the bathroom. So puppies are starting to sleep in the shavings as well, and then go into the crate to poop/pee. Until yesterday the pups were keeping the crate clean and dry, but this morning the crate was full of poops and wet.

Also, at night Storm is in and out of the box constantly - at least twice an hour she'd be hopping in to eat poops, but as soon as the pups all woke up and started to latch on, she'd hop out. HUGE noisy babies all annoyed that mom left (I finally watched from the other room to see what the big deal was) after waking them up. During the day, mom generally doesn't go in much at all, she avoids them, would rather hang outside and when she does come in, she usually won't go in to check them anyway.

So this is leading to a few issues, first the pups are sleeping most of the day and not very active (but when I go in there at night to see what the problem is, they're all active and playing and busy). Second, they see the crate as a potty area and I've seen some stop playing in the shavings, go into the crate and take a dump, then come back out again. And they will also lay in the dirty shavings to snooze.

The shavings are dry, not too soiled, but not totally clean either, so there's the pee/poop smell there to cue them to go potty. The crate gets sprayed with a mild cleaner and wiped out to get rid of any poop/pee smell and the shredded paper is changed with clean every day, or more often if needed - if the paper is wet from pee the whole thing gets changed out so no pee smell. And the crate is now just big enough for them to all curl up in (the bigger crate seemed to mean they'd pee at the entrance and sleep at the back, and since mom won't go in the crate anyway other than to eat poops and step on sleeping babies...).

Any suggestions? I really don't want to have these pups learn to be dirty, poop in their crates and sleep all day/party all night.....

Lana

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CH Goldcker's Bending The Rules SHDCH AGI ADC CGN Am NGC FDCH - Bender
Quanda's Admit One FDX - Ticket(Golden in Border Collie suit)
Goldcker's Next Chapter - Storee (wild child in training)

Bumping up......

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How old are the puppies? Most people I know who foster litters keep the puppies in a kiddie pool with newspaper lining the bottom. That way mom can get in and out easily. If they are small enough, I wouldn't worry too much about "housetraining" them to go in a certain place. Once they are old enough, they will be able to get out of the pool themselves, or if they are too small, most of the fosters I know move them into an X-pen. If they are 4-5 weeks old, mom is probably working towards weaning them. Usually they wean between 5 and 6 weeks old.

Sorry, that's my limited knowledge about litters of puppies. I normally don't get them until they are already weaned, so I don't have the mom to deal with, just the puppies.

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Change the substrate. Maybe try newspaper pellets or whatever is considered "safe" as the new potty substrate....and hopefully it won't be appealing to mom. Maybe set it up with some sort of barrier so she can't go and lie in that space! I would get rid of the crate few a couple weeks to prevent the puppies eliminating in there...and once other habits are established, re-introduce it. Get completely clean bedding material.

She's sure NOT helping you with the training!

Bumping....

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Cocasse
Golden Retriever X Collie
Born October 17, 2008 (?)
Adopted November 23, 2009

Well mom solved the problem for me. She's refusing to go in with them at all, and has for a few days. Started with some very noisy nights, figured out she was going in to eat the poopies, waking up everyone in the process, then jumping out as soon as she could without allowing them to nurse for more than a second. This went on all night, every 20-30 minutes. So I tried the next day with putting mom outside for an hour or so, cleaning up all the poops etc. and putting her in (with her space away from babies if she wanted) and she'd just sit in her space, no going into nurse or check on them. No infections or sore spots, she just didn't want to deal with them. Also not caring if they were killing each other and screaming, she was more into 'let me out of here'.

So, she's been crated at night and off and on during the day, or outside, been taken in to nurse a few times a day to make sure she didn't get infections as she dried up, and the pups are on soggy kibble more. They are also sleeping through the night without noise too, and doing MUCH better on potty training - their play area had no poops on it tonight when we got home, and didn't look like any pee either.

I'll take some pictures of their area tomorrow, but it's a 4 by 4 potty area with shavings, then about the same with foam mats and a crate with shredded paper (changed daily so it's clean). Still freaking about the dogs and mom going by but overall much more content and settled.

Knock on wood - long day and off to bed!

Lana

__________________
CH Goldcker's Bending The Rules SHDCH AGI ADC CGN Am NGC FDCH - Bender
Quanda's Admit One FDX - Ticket(Golden in Border Collie suit)
Goldcker's Next Chapter - Storee (wild child in training)

Phew! What a good foster mom you are. What a handful! Never fostered a litter so have no clue!

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Jacqueline

"I have just met you and I love you" - Dug (Up!)

View Cosmo's Pedigree: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=419119

Just had to laugh. I joined a breeder's email group for advice. There's one gal on there that seems to be out to lunch. First she tried to explain that when the pups are weaned, the moms usually will stop cleaning up after them, but that 'doesn't mean they won't care for their pups' - I had asked about it because if mom is crated for a few hours (meaning she hasn't had a chance to check on her pups) she still won't go in with them - a test someone suggested to see how much of a good mom a dog is if there's concern.

So I replyed back that I understood that as the pups are weaned onto solid food mom won't want to clean up after them. Yeesh. And that mom is pretty much out of the picture unless I force her to nurse, but the pups were eating well on their own and doing fine.

Her reply to that email was to start feeding them puppy food because if they're not nursing they'll need to eat. Really! Didn't think that young puppies or dogs of any age would need food, go figure!

Debating on what to say in a reply to that one......

Lana

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CH Goldcker's Bending The Rules SHDCH AGI ADC CGN Am NGC FDCH - Bender
Quanda's Admit One FDX - Ticket(Golden in Border Collie suit)
Goldcker's Next Chapter - Storee (wild child in training)

"They need to eat? Really?" I guess that would be rude to all the other board members who have a brain.

I fostered a litter and mama and had pretty much the same situation, mama refused to nurse unless we forced her to stay in with them, even then she would stand up the whole time. The puppies were about 3-4 weeks old and we had to start them on gruel. The did fine though, as adults they are all big dogs!

I'm glad you are getting to sleep.

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