Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
8K views 96 replies 13 participants last post by  GoldensGirl 
#1 ·
Sadly, I am afraid that I may need to join the group of dogs with seizures. I believe my 41/2 year old golden is having mild seizures. It all began on July 4. She and my two other goldens had been boarded for 5 days and two days after I was home I noticed Piper was having some type of episode.

She was lying on the sofa, upright (not on her side) and her head began shaking. She was awake and responsive. I asked her to get off the sofa and she immediately got down but went down on her belly. When I called her, she had trouble getting up and sort of hopped, staggered, etc. trying to walk and going back down on her belly. She was totally aware of everything going on around her and this only lasted a minute after which she was totally fine. Got up, walked around..as if nothing happened.

This past Saturday, I put all the dogs downstairs into their "dog room" for the night. She had gone for a 2.5 mile walk that day and had been totally racked out for most of the day. After going out for final call she bounded down the basement steps and into the dog room. I came upstairs and then, for some reason that I do not know, I went back down for something. I looked into the dog room and was greeted by 2 dogs instead of 3. They had only been down there a maximum of 5 minutes. When I walked into the room, Piper was in her crate and I realized she was having another episode. It looked the same to me and after about a minute, she was completely fine again.

I called the vet and had a 5:30 appointment last night. She was with me the entire afternoon, sitting at my feet or on the sofa (I worked from home). At 5:00 I took the other two dogs downstairs and left Piper upstairs. I was in the basement for about 1-2 minutes. When I got back upstairs, Piper was on the sofa and as I walked up to her, I noticed she was lying on her belly, as usual, her head was straight out and trembling. When asked to get off the sofa and come to me, she exibited the same symptoms as the first episode, getting up, back down, walking, limping, hopping like she lost some motor control in her back legs. After a moment of walking like this, about 20-30 seconds she was fine.

I explained all of this to my vet, who immediately said she has epilepsy, and told me she needs phenobarbital. She did not examine her or even take a blood test. I requested a blood test and she said ok, that was a good idea.

From everyones's perspective, does this sound like seizures? Both times she has jumped on the sofa or ran down stairs. My breeder seems to think that it doesn't sound like epilepsy, but maybe a pinched nerve, cramp or something like that. She has been breeding for 30 years, is a personal friend and does not have epilepsy in any of her lines that she knows of at least.

Needless to say, I am a mess right now. I want to get a 2nd opinion and will be investigating another vet today.

Please help.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Welcome to the Forum. It sounds like you're having a hard time and this group is a good place to find support for the kinds of problems you describe.

What you're describing does not sound like a grand mal seizure. It may be some kind of focal or partial seizure, but that's hard to say without seeing what happens. If you can capture a video, that would be helpful to us but also to any veterinarians you consult. The vet you have now seems very quick to prescribe Pheno without really doing the work-up that might be expected before giving a drug that has a lot of side effects. Most of us in the GRF seizure community have to give Pheno and all of us hate it. But what concerns me the most is that it might make it more difficult for a neurologist to assess what is going on with your gal. She may have epilepsy, but I'm not convinced yet.

It sounds to me like a veterinary neurologist is what you need. If I'm right that you are not too far from Philadelphia, you might make an appointment with a neurologist at the U. Penn School of Veterinary Medicine: Ryan-VHUP. Vet schools have the advantage of providing a wide range of specialists and they usually have the latest in equipment, which can be important.

Please keep us posted on how Piper is doing and how you're coping with this. Seizures and other neurological conditions can be very stressful to the people who care for a stricken dog. Some level of panic and emotional exhaustion are familiar to many of us and sharing the experiences can help.
 
#4 ·
I really feel for you. You must be so worried about your Piper. I do hope knowing that you have support and advice here, will be of some comfort to you. How are you getting on looking for another vet? Trust you are able to find one who truly wants to get to the bottom of Piper's condition.

Best wishes,
Lyn
 
#5 · (Edited)
Pipers Seizure

I took Piper to another vet today that also practices chiropractic and holistic medicine. She felt that Piper was having mild seizures and made a recommendation that she go to a neurologist also. I am scared to death that this means a brain tumor. The vet didn't think so, but that is what has been on my mind. I have an appt for Tuesday, but don't think I can wait that long so will try to get in tomorrow or Friday. The blood test came back and everything is normal. Thank you for all the support. I am totally wiped out and an emotional mess right now. Can't stop crying.
 
#7 ·
I took Piper to another vet today that also practices chiropractic and holistic medicine. She felt that Piper was having mild seizures and made a recommendation that she go to a neurologist also. I am scared to death that this means a brain tumor. The vet didn't think so, but that is what has been on my mind. I have an appt for Tuesday, but don't think I can wait that long so will try to get in tomorrow or Friday. The blood test came back and everything is normal. Thank you for all the support. I am totally wiped out and an emotional mess right now. Can't stop crying.
I so understand where you are right now and I just ache for you. It's wonderful that you are moving quickly to get Piper to a neurologist.

But please try not to give in to fear. Piper needs you to be strong and courageous, and you can draw that from your love for her. You really can. Just as humans can have many neurological conditions, so can dogs. Most of them are not fatal, or not quickly so. Piper might need meds or physical therapy or even surgery, but odds are that you have some time with her that I hope you can fill with joy for both of you.

We are here for you, whatever the diagnosis.
 
#6 ·
Sending positive vibes and prayers your way. I hope it is just something minor. Please try to stay positive and do not think the worst, it does not help.
 
#9 ·
Piper's Seizures

Piper is very subdued and tired today. She did have an accupuncture treatment yesterday afternoon. Would that cause her to be so tired. She also had a lot of activity yesterday...3 hours back and forth to the vet and 3 hours at the vet, so maybe she is just tired from that. Changed the neurologist appointment for Monday...can't get anything sooner. Maybe that is for the best because we can see if she does or does not have another episode.

The vet told me yesterday to relax and think positive thoughts...this is not the worst thing that can happen to her and she will be fine. If I could only convince myself of that I could go on with everything I need to do, like my job.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Piper's Seizures

Question...Piper was born 5/24/08 so turned 4 a couple of months ago. I first noticed her first seizure July 5, but, who knows, they are so mild she could have had others while I was at work or sleeping. Is this within the time parameter for idiopathic epilepsy. I have heard conflicting things, but mostly between 1-4 years for primary epilipsey to show up.
 
#12 ·
Question...Piper was born 5/24/08 so turned 4 a couple of months ago. I first noticed her first seizure July 5, but, who knows, they are so mild she could have had others while I was at work or sleeping. Is this within the time parameter for idiopathic epilepsy. I have heard conflicting things, but mostly between 1-4 years for primary epilipsey to show up.
Yes. Seizures starting late in life are mostly the result of underlying brain disease such as tumors. For young dogs, idiopathic epilepsy is the usual diagnosis. "Idiopathic" means "cause unknown" and "epilepsy" is just another word for seizures.

The GRF has lots of members who have or had dogs with idiopathic epilepsy who live(d) long, fairly normal lives. You don't hear from them as often because they have adjusted to this aspect of life with their dogs.
 
#11 ·
Being tired after any alternative treatment - massage, chiropractic, acupuncture - is pretty normal. Being on Pheno also makes dogs a bit subdued, which is one of the things all of us hate about the drug.

Taking care of a seizure dog is exhausting, both emotionally and physically. There are nights of disrupted sleep from dealing with seizures that often occur after midnight, days of schedules driven by the relentless timing of medications and the consequences of tardiness, and the strain of helping a dog whose back legs are not reliable, not to mention the worry that is never far from the surface. Charlie had seizures for only 13 months before we lost him, but it has taken far longer than that for us to recover and rebuild the parts of our lives that we gave up to be at home with him. This is simply to say that I do understand where you're coming from.

For your own sanity, it is important to strike a balance and to realize that you will not be present for every seizure that Piper has. Your life has to go on, too, and Piper wouldn't have it any other way. You still need to work, to be with friends and have fun, to take care of your health, and do things like getting a manicure or a massage. Seizures are horrifying, but the damage they do to our lives is more so, especially if we let them dominate every hour.

You are doing the right things for Piper in terms of getting the medical care that she needs. It's important that you also do the right things for yourself! Take some deep breaths, take a walk by yourself, go out to dinner... do whatever helps you center and relax a bit. You'll take better care of Piper when you have your own mental and emotional balance, not to mention being better able to enjoy your life and hers. For me, this was the hardest part of Charlie's illness.

Wishing you and Piper a joyful and seizure-free day.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Pipers Seizure

Thanks GoldensGirl
So, being that Piper is a couple of months past 4, does she qualify for the time period of the idiopathic seizure rather than secondary. I know there is no guarantee, but, I would not consider her to be late in life.

Yes, I have a webcam and keep it on at work by watching her with an iPad. It is exhausting and I am becoming obsessed with making sure I know if she has a seizure. I will try to relax and take it easy, but I think the initial shock has not worn off.

Hoping that I can be one of those folks who learn to live with this and her seizures are controlled, with her living a long, wonderful life.
 
#14 ·
Thanks GoldensGirl
So, being that Piper is a couple of months past 4, does she qualify for the time period of the idiopathic seizure rather than secondary. I know there is know guarantee, but, I would not consider her to be late in life.
She qualifies, but it would probably take getting the recommended MRI to be sure she doesn't have some kind of brain lesion. The neurologist can give you the information you need to make a good decision about this. We didn't do this for Charlie since he was almost 12 when his seizures began and we were pretty sure of the outcome.

Yes, I have a webcam and keep it on at work by watching her with an iPad. It is exhausting and I am becoming obsessed with making sure I know if she has a seizure. I will try to relax and take it easy, but I think the initial shock has not worn off.
I think we all go through this phase. It takes time to come to grips with the idea that you cannot possibly be there for every episode. None of us like that idea. It helps to make sure that your dog is in a safe environment, meaning a safe place to have a seizure when alone. That is indoors, in a place where nothing will fall on the dog during a violent seizure, and where there are no other dogs who might get upset and attack a seizing dog. Stairs are dangerous for seizure dogs, so they need to be blocked or gated in some way. Once you do your best in this arena, I think the real value in monitoring for seizures is to know when a change of meds or further veterinary consultation is needed.

Hoping that I can be one of those folks who learn to live with this and her seizures are controlled, with her living a long, wonderful life.
I hope so, too! When you relax a bit and enjoy your time with Piper, both of you will be happier. :wavey:
 
#15 ·
I do understand your desire to know if Piper has had a seizure, but if you continue to be 'obsessed' - as you put it - your anxiety will be picked up by Piper, which of course, wouldn't be a good thing.
I think you're right - the initial shock still hasn't worn off - it does take time. Posting here, and reading what others have to say, is likely to help you come to terms with the way things are.
Try to be easy on yourself, I'm sure there will be some good times ahead.

Lyn
 
#16 ·
I am sorry to see yet another possible newcomer to this thread. We all know how you are feeling - unfortunately we have all been there on this thread. It is a terrible shock when a neurological symptom like this shows up suddenly.

I hope they will be able to figure out what is happening with Piper, but of course if it is idiopathic epilepsy it is only diagnosed by elimination. If it should turn out to be epilepsy you will learn to live with the condition,and will just have to make adjustments to allow for medication times. In time you will find that in between episodes you will feel easier, but obviously for a day or so after a fit you will feel on edge again.

You will however find a great deal of support from others who have experienced the condition in their pets.
 
#17 ·
Piper's Seizures

So far so good. Piper has not had another seizure, at least that I know of since Tuesday night. And, she is back to her old self tonight. I am so happy to see her smiling face and romping with the other two. Kind of feel guilty that I have been ignoring the other two, but they are so forgiving and I know they understand. I will continue to watch her carefully and try not to get unnerved if she does have another. I have my video camera on the table next to me and take it with me just in case, but the more I read, the more I realize that yes, she is most likely having seizures. I was in denial for a couple of days and had to work through it I guess. I will do whatever I can for my fur baby, that is a given. I don't want her to suffer in any way, and I actually find that I am loving all of them a little more (if that is possible) and do not take them for granted. Life got in the way, and this made me realize what really is important.

Neurologist on Monday morning, so I hope I get some additional information or answers then. Piper is on some holistic supplements right now. I feed her Nutro Ultra Large Breed. Always have. Any suggestions on what I should be feeding? I see a lot of posts of food.
 
#18 ·
Piper's Seizures

I have been spending a good amount of my time on this forum reading all the stories about your poor babies and their trials and tribulations in getting control of their seizures. I had no idea that this was such a large community or what each of you go through all the time for your goldens. I commend each of you for all your efforts and hope I can be as strong as all of you if the need arises. I believe I saw a post that most dogs with seizures are controlled and therefore their owners do not post as often or not at all, but in reading these posts, all of you are on a roller coaster ride all the time with this. How do you do it, and how do you manage the expense. Emergency vets are quite expensive, let alone the vet visits and drugs. And the emotional expense must take a toll on you also. You all are angels to me and I am humbled that I know each of you, even if it is just for awhile through these posts.

Wishing you all the best and seizure free days to love and enjoy your best friends. XXOO
 
#20 ·
Piper

I have been spending a good amount of my time on this forum reading all the stories about your poor babies and their trials and tribulations in getting control of their seizures. I had no idea that this was such a large community or what each of you go through all the time for your goldens. I commend each of you for all your efforts and hope I can be as strong as all of you if the need arises. I believe I saw a post that most dogs with seizures are controlled and therefore their owners do not post as often or not at all, but in reading these posts, all of you are on a roller coaster ride all the time with this. How do you do it, and how do you manage the expense. Emergency vets are quite expensive, let alone the vet visits and drugs. And the emotional expense must take a toll on you also. You all are angels to me and I am humbled that I know each of you, even if it is just for awhile through these posts.

Wishing you all the best and seizure free days to love and enjoy your best friends. XXOO
I ADMIRE all of you. Will be saying a prayer for Piper, and all of the sweet seizure dogs and their owners here!
 
#19 ·
What kind comments! Each one of us manages because we have to; because we love our dogs and want to make their lives as happy as we can. In a way, we haven't a choice. And yes, it is a roller coaster.

Financially it can be difficult I'm sure. We are very relieved that we took out pet insurance for our dogs and my heart goes out to those who have that extra worry.

I found this forum in August, not long after Alice had her cluster of 5 and I didn't feel strong at all then. I was stressed out, emotionally drained and desperately worried about my dear girl - because things had changed. I'd coped over the 19 months of her intermittent seizures and had come to accept the way it was. Then in 24 hours it changed. I was left not knowing if she would recover and improve, or if she was nearing the end of her life. This place has helped SO much; the knowledge and experience shared, the care and support of other members and having somewhere to log my feelings and Alice's journey.
I'm sure if it comes to it, you will find the strength you need, and in those times when it seems out of reach, the people here will help carry you.

And now I'm off to change my jeans - just realised they're still wet from swimming the girls this morning!!

Best wishes to you and Piper,

Lyn
 
#21 ·
What kind comments! Each one of us manages because we have to; because we love our dogs and want to make their lives as happy as we can. In a way, we haven't a choice. And yes, it is a roller coaster. ...
Lyn said this well. When you love a dog who has seizures, it's like loving a human who is ill. You do what you can, knowing love is not just for the easy times.

The bills can be a challenge, as they are for any major illness. I learned to budget for them and I learned to look for reliable alternative sources for meds. For example, zonisamide runs over $400 for one month's supply at most places, but Costco carries the generic for about $55. Online pharmacies can be a good resource, too, if you look for the ones that are accredited by VIPPS. I'm convinced that the veterinarians gave us a break on bills several times, especially the neurologist and the emergency clinic. And our family vet rearranged his life more than once to help us in a crisis.

I learned a lot from Charlie during the last year of his life, not least about grace, courage, and taking joy in pleasures of each day. He gave me the best he had and I couldn't do less for him. I am also grateful for the support of the wonderful man who shares my life and who did a lot of the hard-duty nursing and heavy lifting for Charlie. Had I been alone, I think I would have had to say goodbye to Charlie much sooner. Not having to make that choice is priceless.

Love will give you the strength you need.
 
#22 ·
Piper's Seizures

Doing some thinking about some of the event and looking for a reason or correlation for Piper's episodes. Interestingly, Piper had been boarded for 5 days and then we had a lawn fertilizer service spray the yard on July 2, the day she came back from the kennel. She had her first episode, that I saw, on July 5.

The yard was sprayed on 8/21, and she had two episodes, 9/15 and 9/18. Can't see the correlation here, but she was on a long walk, sometimes in the grass on 9/15.

Piper is one of those dogs that is continuously in the yard, eating everything and anything she can get ahold of.

Am I reaching here? She has been fine since Tuesday and I have been watching her via the iPad at work.
 
#23 ·
Doing some thinking about some of the event and looking for a reason or correlation for Piper's episodes. Interestingly, Piper had been boarded for 5 days and then we had a lawn fertilizer service spray the yard on July 2, the day she came back from the kennel. She had her first episode, that I saw, on July 5.

The yard was sprayed on 8/21, and she had two episodes, 9/15 and 9/18. Can't see the correlation here, but she was on a long walk, sometimes in the grass on 9/15.

Piper is one of those dogs that is continuously in the yard, eating everything and anything she can get ahold of.

Am I reaching here? She has been fine since Tuesday and I have been watching her via the iPad at work.
This is a good catch! There are lots of lawn chemicals, especially for insect control, that trigger seizures and one of Charlie's triggers was Frontline Plus. The linkage is strong enough that the US Environmental Protection Agency is doing a study of "spot-on" insecticides. If I were you, I would stop that lawn treatment and see if the seizures go away. I'd also monitor for seizures associated with any flea and tick treatments that you use.

Good luck!
 
#25 ·
Piper's Seizures

Piper has been fine since Tuesday. I have been watching her as much as possible and she is acting her usual self. I have read a lot of posts about seizures and I guess my concern is since I do need to work and be out of the house daily, how do I effectively monitor her to make sure she isn't having more while I am not around?

What does everyone else do? Are you home during the day for the most part, or are the seizures frequent enough that you can anticipate and medicate appropriately? This is all so new to me, but Piper will get the best care possible from me and my partner. We have two other goldens who we also love so much, but Piper has become my priority right now. I am calmer than previously, but hoping for the best, preparing for whatever we need to do.

By the way, the dogs are, Strider, age 3, Brynn, age 7 and Piper, age 4 in the photo below. This was taken on their walk last Saturday, prior to her 2nd episode later that evening.
 
#26 ·
I am so sorry to read about another newcomer to our group of seizure dogs. Definitely seek a full consultation from a veterinary neurologist. They are fantastic and worth every penny/cent! Neurology is an extremely difficult subject which is only touched the surface on when at vet school so your general GP vets will struggle with anything out of the ordinary. I thought I knew about seizures till my Rosie developed Epilepsy in February - since then I spend hours of my precious spare time reading about it, every new neuro article in veterinary literature is read from start to finish in the hope I may learn something new to help both my own Rosie and my other special seizure dog clients. I am forever looking for new signs/triggers - like tonight, she seems agitated and is barking more - it may be nothing but I will probably sleep lighter tonight worrying it may mean something! It is tiring but you learn to balance your life and theirs. We cope because the alternative is not something we wish to have to consider for a long long long time.
 
#28 ·
With regards to your question about how we manage leaving them...in the first month I don't think I did to be honest. I really struggled but in time it gets easier. She comes to work with me - either spends some of the day in a kennel at work or in my car - if I'm not in the car - it is parked carefully opposite the office window so one of my collegues can alert me if they see any odd behaviour. They are all so sweet and have multiple times interrupted me because they thought she was acting 'strange' - when all she was doing was trying to get comfy!!! But as time goes by, and you realise that you have more seizure free days (hopefully!) than seizure days, you begin to start taking some 'risks'. I only leave her in place where it is unlikely she can cause any damage to herself should she have one and we used to be able to leave her all day - now I try only to keep it to half days or evenings. If we can't, I try to find someone who can look after her or even book her into the kennels (which she adores!) as at least there she can't harm herself if she has one. We also take comfort in that the majority of her seizures occur after midnight and we are here then. I occasionally get called out for emergency calls in the night and she comes with me then. I carry Rectal Diazepam wherever we go with her, and have it handy in the house in case.

The timing for the Phenobarbitone pills are the hardest, especially as my job is so unpredictable. But we do the best we can and don't get too surprised if she has a seizure in the days following a late pill. It's a very personal thing about how you manage and cope with leaving them. In the end, we have to carry on as normal to a certain degree - I pray that I will still have Rosie in 8-10yrs time (her grandma died aged 16yrs last week!) and if we are lucky enough to be one of those dogs - we need to have some normality - that is one hec of a long time to never go out or do anything for ourselves without her. You will find a way to balance things.

Good luck tomorrow - lets hope the neurologist has some good news for you :)
 
#29 ·
Piper's Seizures

Saw the neurologist for Piper this morning. He told me that her seizures were not typical for epilepsy or a brain tumor since they were so mild. He suggested we do some further testing to rule some things out so she is staying overnight at the vet hospital for the tests. Specifically, she is having:

1. 36 hour glucose test to check for hypoglycemia--
2. A liver function, bile, acid test

If these come back negative, his suggestion is we put her on potassium bromide. An MRI can be done, but unless her seizures increase, cannot be controlled, or become grand mal, he doesn't think it is necessary right now. She is having shivering, head tremors and wobbly legs in the back that only lasts a minute or two right now.

One step in front of the other. Holding my breath.:uhoh:
 
#30 ·
How do you feel about that? Sounds as if you have some cause for hope - albeit early days yet. Pleasing the neurologist felt her symptoms are not typical of epilepsy or brain tumour.
Fingers are very very crossed for you receiving good news.
Try to relax this evening if you can - you must be in need of letting go.

Take care,
Lyn
 
#32 ·
Sounds like you have good news at this point.

Memory fails me. Has Piper had a full thyroid work-up? There is a strong link between hypothyroidism and seizures, and low thyroid function is very common in Goldens. What many vets call "low normal" on thyroid tests is unacceptably low for Goldens. Muscle weakness and tremors can also be caused by hypothyroidism. If that should be at the root of Piper's problems, the meds are inexpensive, very effective, and quite safe.

I hope you can relax tonight. Your gal is getting the care she needs and it sounds like you have every reason to be optimistic about her longevity and quality of life.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top