Hi and welcome to the new members who have come to the forum seeking information on the whole English Cream vs American Golden. I applaud you all for coming here looking for information and guidance on choosing your next puppy.

As you've already surmised from the most current threads on the topic, it can often be a contentious and controversial debate with many differing opinions.

What brought you here looking for answers on an English Cream? Something like this perhaps?

That you don't know all ins and outs of English/European vs American lined dogs...you saw someone with a "cream" colored Golden or saw one on the Internet during a search and liked what you saw. You come here to ask questions and the next thing you know you're involved in all the controversy.

All of us here on the forum, breeder and pet lover alike seek to inform, educate and warn against unscrupulous breeding practices. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't but the intentions are good and come from the heart and soul of our love of the breed.

Do I think that there's too much emphasis on the color debate and the misleading marketing practices of "English Cream" breeders without enough discussion on bad breeding in general? Yes. Why? Because believe it or not, there are scam artists, bad breeders and people who breed without clearances throughout the Golden community from the darkest gold of a field line, to the showy conformation dogs to the English/European bred dogs, to a recent case of someone being sold a Doodle instead of a Golden Retriever and everything in between.

So I think the more important discussion and emphasis should be on proper breeding practices as a whole.

You should start from the premise that ALL Golden Retrievers regardless of heritage should come to you with the important health clearances for our breed, a minimum of Hips, Elbows, Heart and Eyes.

That no puppy should come from dogs less than 2 years old and with those clearances, that you should be able to visit the breeder and actually have them insist on a visit before they'll sell you a puppy, that they insist on a questionaire to discern your plans for the puppy and how you will care for it.

You should question and care about how many litters a breeder has a year or at any given time. Raising puppies is a lot of work and if a breeder has two or three litters on the ground at time you should question how they can possibly be getting the correct care.

You should question how the litter is raised and where (how much socialization does it receive). You should care about the diet of the parent dogs and how the litter is fed (remember the breeder has the pup for the first vital 8 weeks of brain development). That the breeder will stand behind your puppy and be a lifeline of support throughout its life.

As is mentioned here so often, the proper temperment for a Golden is vital. A properly bred Golden will be a big mush ball, with warm and loving expressions who lives to please you. They need to be around their people and are always underfoot. They are the worst guard dogs in the world who will welcome a burglar into your home with the same vigor as they welcome you when you come from work. Any deviation from this standard in meeting and assesing a Golden is a red flag. It should also be part of your assessment is deciding whether a Golden is for you...if you don't welcome being surrounded by your pup, loved on frequently, cleaning up after fur (they shed a lot!), investing in balls, bones and stuffies and dealing with muddy paws...a Golden is not for you. Your breeder should be advising you on the pitfalls of Goldens as well as all the positives.

Once you get through these basic and vital steps you need to start thinking about the personality and activity level you want in your Golden. Why? Because Goldens from field lines tend to be more energic and require even more exercise. Are you interested in agility? Then a dog from these lines might be for you. A good breeder will interpret your questionaire and ask questions and might tell you a pup from her litter will not fit into your lifestyle or plans for your puppy. Don't take offense...they are doing their job.

But at the end of the day if you're looking for a healthy, happy and well adjusted Golden puppy as a family pet and you're not going to show or work in agility or obedience, the necessity to endlessly research pedigrees and different lineages is not as important to your needs.

Finally, after all that is done....IMHO it's okay to have a preference in coat and color. Really, it's okay!!! I have 4 four Goldens and every single one of them has a different coat and color. I love and am obsessed with each and every one. Some are from American lines, some are American/European and one is European. They all bring something wonderful to the world of Goldens and to our life.

So I guess my point is yes, you should never seek out a Golden based solely on its color but rather go through all the steps mentioned to separate the wheat from the chaff (good breeding practices vs bad) and then if you have a preference in color, further narrow down your list to those to have parents with the color range you prefer remembering there are no quarantees what color their litter will produce. And remember the golden rule of coat color....the color of the ears will be the best determination of its adult color which will take up to three years to fully materialize.

I hope this information is helpful to those looking for their next pup!

Footnote: I am not in any way negating all the great debates on the forum as to conformation, lineages, pedigrees and differences between European lines and American lines and the unscrupulous breeding practices of those who seek to market Goldens based solely on their color but rather separate the issues for those not as obssessed as we are about those things and offer some hopefully solid advice to those seeking info on English/European bred dogs.

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A Golden Life Ranch
www.agoldenliferanch.com
Nature, Nurture, Nutrition...It's a Golden Life For Our Retrievers!

Thanks!!

I love Goldens, and I have fostered and loved and lived with HUGE cream dogs and tiny red dogs (and everything in between) and I can name faults and good things that I saw in ALL of them.

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I would add the importance of having a mimnimum of 3 generations with clearances, and also looking at the vertical pedigree.

Didn't we used to have a sticky in the Puppy thread about looking for a puppy and breeder?

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Sasha, Gunner,
& Angel Selka in Heaven

Love You Always
Max, Sophie and Shammy

Yep. Still there - a couple good ones.

Great post. Informative, insightful, and doesn't push any buttons.

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I will ask Joe to add this to the puppy checkfinder list. It is good information. If you think of other information that should be in this thread for a new puppy buyer to look for please add it. The more informed a member is before buying will hopefully insure less problems down the road.

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"But at the end of the day if you're looking for a healthy, happy and well adjusted Golden puppy as a family pet and you're not going to show or work in agility or obedience, the necessity to endlessly research pedigrees and different lineages is not as important to your needs."


Most of this information has been posted in other threads regarding breeding and buying a puppy, and is good information. However,
I have to disagree with the above quote. If you are looking for health and longevity, and to decrease your chances of paying thousands of dollars in health care over the life of your dog, it should be important. Without doing the research, or if you simply see clearances for sire and dam when none exist for their siblings or parents, and even grandparents and further back, that healthy, happy, well adjusted puppy can be a heartbreaker in the (not so) longrun. If you are paying the "going price" for a well-bred dog, a solid family history of clearances should exist. If not, or, if it is not of high importance to you, please -consider rescue.

Pointgold...I don't disagree with what you said at all in your earlier response. I should have added for clarity going back three generations on clearances. Point well taken. However the quote you reference above was intended for overall obsessing over pedigrees and lines, not at all in reference to clearances which I agree are vitally important.

__________________
A Golden Life Ranch
www.agoldenliferanch.com
Nature, Nurture, Nutrition...It's a Golden Life For Our Retrievers!

The two go hand in hand, though. You cannot check on vitally important clearances without thoroughly researching pedigrees and "lines".

And when doing the research, there are certain lines (kennels) that if I see them in a pedigree anywhere, will be deal breakers for me.