European Standards Vs American Standards - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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European Standards Vs American Standards

I found this interesting article in the forum:

http://www.englishgoldens.net/pdf/Wh...nRetriever.pdf

European Goldens are different then american and Canadian, in terms of standards.
Happy is my 5 Golden Retriever, from my previous 4 only one is still alive.
Only Chelsy had babies and I kept one of them, all of them were different colors sizes etc.
Also, the English cream as they call it here in the US, wasn't that much of a trend in europe 15 years ago, it's something more recent.

My questions is, if I decide to Breed my puppy (she is still 6 months, long time to think about this.. )
should I get a male from Europe?

Happy Go Lucky Do Sol D'Arena
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=809129
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Last edited by HappyNY; 01-09-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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She's darling.
Before you decide whether to breed her or not, there's a lot to be done.
She is old enough now for
1.first opthalmologist exam (ask for OFA eyes and mail them in)
2.DNA testing for the GR panel but especially Ichthyosis which is an add-on. Fortunately they are having a sale right now- www.pawprintgenetics.com and the code for the 40% off is BEST (which is a returning customer code so it may not work but it might- so give it a try!) send results to OFA for listing.
3.AKC registration. LJacks will be able to tell you how to do that- she just imported a bitch puppy and is utd on all the ways to best do the AKC dual registration

While you're waiting on her to turn 1, which is old enough to do OFA cardiac (and you want a cardiologist, not a pet vet to do this one- it is crucial to have a practiced ear and also is the only way the clearance would be compliant with the CoE so if (say) you use a practitioner instead, one day someone may come here and ask about your breeding plans- it happens daily- and we would tell them to go the other way because the cardiac was insufficient. So just get the right one to start with.

Also, enter her in some events- if she's obedient, go get a RN or CD on her. Take some classes and meet some people who are AKC savvy.

Then, when she is two, get her hips and elbows done. While you've been doing obedience, rally or conformation, you will meet people who can help you. Find a mentor if you can.
Finding a stud dog is not possible for you at this time since no reputable stud dog owner would agree until she is 2YO and has a full complement of clearances. But you can spend this next 18 months learning all you can, asking questions, and hoping that you will be able to make lovely puppies.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:04 PM
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Euro specs have 1/2 cancer rate as compared to AKC. Not good for the states.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:17 PM
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I love the light colors of the english ones.
But apparently thats the hip thing right now....
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 02:26 AM
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European or American really does not matter as much as dunding the right dog.

Robin gave you a good path to getting to two and all the testing.

I will address the difference a little more head on. Honestly there really not that much difference. American dogs actually do meet the KC standard and the European dogs do meet the US standard. That is not to say that what wins in confirmation rings on either continent are identical and there are certainly style differences but the basics of what makes a Golden a Golden are the same.

So, my suggestion is let your girl grow up a bit and then have her evaluated. The GRCA offers the CCA program which is ideal for this.https://www.grca.org/events/conforma...on-assessment/
This will give you a good understanding of where your girl is trying in meeting the standard and where she is week and needs improvement. Then seek a stud dog that th strong where she needs it and does not bring too many of his own weekness to the pairing. That approach does not require worrying about European or American but ultimately the best dog.


Laura and the Anasazi Golden Girls
Jinx, Tilt and Tizzy (the Italian)

Tilt's Pedigree
Tizzy's Pedigree
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmrun2002 View Post
Euro specs have 1/2 cancer rate as compared to AKC. Not good for the states.
There's actually no study that states this. What the euro promoters are using to make this point is two surveys, one done in the UK and one done in the US, which did not use any pedigree info (so while not likely, the UK dogs could all have been imports as could the US survey dogs) and these surveys were not concurrent nor were they in real time- they were surveys of dogs by dx.
Scientific worthlessness.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 07:39 AM
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The claim that English Goldens have lower cancer rates is based on a survey done in the U.K. conducted years apart from a similar (but not identical) U.S. survey. It is important to note that this survey was not a study of English style Golden Retrievers vs. American style Golden Retrievers, but rather one study done in the U.K. and one study done in the U.S. Neither survey was done with the intent to control against one another, and both were on only a few hundred dogs each. There was no control for who reported, no control for what style of dog they actually had (all the "U.S." dogs could have been 'English style' dogs living in the U.S.!), and no control for what role diagnostics played in the differences in rates.

All the other research on cancer in Golden Retrievers, and it's extensive, has shown us that there's no increase or decrease in risk depending on whether your dog is English style or American style. The people who sell light Goldens as "White" "Platinum" or "English Cream/Creme" often cite these two surveys as bogus proof of the superior health of their dogs. They prey on unsuspecting puppy buyers, many of whom are distraught over losing a beloved pet to cancer and are just hoping to avoid the pain of losing another young dog. These unscrupulous breeders often charge excessively high prices for their puppies, marketing them as "rare".
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Robin!!!
I really want to enroll her in obedience classes.
My husband already starter to train her, i am trying to convince him to start her in agility.
Not really sure if he wants to. Our other dog was an agility champ, and he suffer so much with her death.
I don't think he wants her to be a copy of Sarah. (that is want I Think)
I would like her to have puppies, at least once. My previous golden, only one had babies the others where spayed.
I am not a breeder and don't intend to become one..
I had so many dogs trough out my life, I just feel that this one has all the best features (temperamental).
My other golden (the one who is 14) never had babies, also a wonderful temperament and beautiful, more then once I had breeders wanted to buy her from me or even give me money so I wouldn't breed her...
I keep telling my husband she would be a great therapy dog...
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Laura and Robin,
I am not a Vet and didn't do any studies on Cancer on European Golden Retrievers.
My other Golden all died of cancer (Sarah was 14 she died last year) chelsy and Minnie also died of cancer at 13.
Wind is 14 (she just turn 14 last week) she has cancer.
I always had dogs growing up ( my mom is a dog lover), they use to eat rice and cooked meat. Started with the dry food with my goldens, don't know if its the food or genetics.
With Happy I am trying to be carefull and give her a good quality dry food and always be careful with what she eats.
The breeder from whom I bought her, has been breeding golden and labradors for more than 20 years.
I saw happy's mom and grandparents, all of them very active and in good shape.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Robin,
I do agree with you, all my other "European Golden" ( they we're English descendants) died of cancer.
Sarah came from Europe, and died here of cancer. But she was born and grew up in Europe, she only came to the USA her last year, she was diagnosed back in Europe.
My point his, European golden dogs also have cancer. So it must me genetics. Once again I don't want to start a research or study.
As for the "trend" on light/cream/white or whatever tone of under light cream, they just want to sell a fashion statement and use those surveys to charge outrageous prices for the puppies.
I was really chocked with the prices that some breeders asked for the "european" golden
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