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Help- Opinions on Training Collars

12K views 83 replies 29 participants last post by  Bosn'sMom 
#1 ·
We are exploring some new trainers for our teenage pup (17 months) and have had a few trainers suggest using a shock collar.

ES300 Einstein Educator www.ecollar.com

I've always been against this, however I had him turn it way up and it just felt like a buzz.

Anyone else use these? I need to do some research before I say yes (or no).

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
Field training? It's the only venue I wouldn't immediately say 'no' to. And even then, I personally would say 'no' to using one on Lucky. But at least I would still consider using that trainer.

(No experience with them myself, but my Dad used them when he was field trialing on some of his dogs. Pointers & Setters- not Goldens.)
 
#7 ·
My gut instinct in that case (I'm not anti ecollars if you are doing field training or some major league off leash hiking training) is - absolutely not.

And that's based on one of my neighbors who I run into from time to time when we are out walking. I know she's not that far because I hear her dog yelping from the ecollar. The dog is very dog-aggressive - and I don't know if that is caused by mom zapping him every time there's a dog in sight, or if he started out that way.
 
#5 ·
There are some videos on this thread posted by solinvictus. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...ose-leash.html (Teaching loose leash)
Try this method first. It got me to convert a dog with 12yrs of pulling experience into a completely loose leash walker. I'd say I got him 80% of the way there in under 2 weeks and it did take another month or so to really get him fine tuned. It takes more effort on your part, but it works great.
 
#6 ·
Opinions will differ, but I can't imagine using one for that and I personally wouldn't be keen on a trainer who suggested it as an option. Particularly not if you hadn't exhausted alternatives. And there are lots of positive reinforcement focused alternatives.
 
#8 ·
Shock collars raise stress hormones in dogs, and can make them very neurotic if they are not properly conditioned to them. We deal with the fall out from electronic collars often in our training center. There are so many other effective ways of training a dog- why risk harm to your relationship with yours? New findings on shock collars: why the UK wants to ban them | Smart Animal Training Systems...

A good first step is to look for a happy, busy training center with trainers certified CPDT-KA. Many great trainers are not certified and some not so good ones are, but it is a useful starting place.
 
#10 ·
Unfortunately, I used one on my GSD a few years back. It was also suggested by my trainer and I didn't know what else to do. (My dog was literally dragging me when she saw another dog) I also tested it on myself and it really was just a vibration. But, oh man, it broke my heart every time I used it. Maylee would yelp and cry so hard, while still trying to go to the other dog.

Come to find out ( after meeting with a behaviorist) it was fear based, so using the ecollar was probably the worst thing I could be doing! I have gotten the best results through positive reinforcement, but it has been slow going and A LOT of work. Have you tried the Easy Walk harness? ( the one the clips in the front) I used that, will a lot of high value treats, to discourage the pulling. After years, I finally can use a normal flat collar and leash with no pulling :)
 
#25 ·
Thanks for sharing this story. It is all too common.
 
#11 ·
Everything I've read seems to suggest the harness collars only encourage dogs that are pullers to pull. No to the shock collar, however I'd look for another trainer to help with a regular collar and loose leash walking. I would consider a soft martingale first before going to other options. imho.
 
#13 ·
Everything I've read seems to suggest the harness collars only encourage dogs that are pullers to pull.

This is true of the traditional harness with the leash clipped to the back. Not so of the Easy Walk harness which attaches the leash to the front, making pulling counterproductive to the dog: it doesn't get him where he wants to go but rather sort of turns him towards you. It's not a panacea and you still have to do the training but it does help. It helped us enormously with Thor. Otherwise we used the method suggested by the video that was shared above and it has done wonders. He will still pull occasionally when too excited but it is no longer a daily thing, and improving every day.


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#12 ·
I am not familiar with your trainer or that specific collar but if you have the right trainer who properly collar conditions your dog, you can successfully train a hard puller to walk off leash. I have had excellent results using the collar.

Also if your dog yelps while using an electronic collar he was not properly conditioned.

A harness that attaches to the back of a dog will just make a dog pull stronger. If you decide to get a harness get the type that attaches in front.
 
#14 ·
I am not familiar with your trainer or that specific collar but if you have the right trainer who properly collar conditions your dog, you can successfully train a hard puller to walk off leash. I have had excellent results using the collar.

Also if your dog yelps while using an electronic collar he was not properly conditioned. A harness that attaches to the back of a dog will just make a dog pull stronger. If you decide to get a harness get the type that attaches in front.
I agree. While I respect the various opinions about whether or not to use an e-collar, I find most of the anti reasoning comes from those who have observed a dog that was not conditioned properly, or heard from others how horrible it can be. My (now 20 month old) girl was pretty unruly, would never "stay", she jumped on visitors and nibbled at their hands and clothes, and would not obey simple commands other than "sit". We hired a trainer who was very well versed in the use of this collar, and absolutely loves dogs. Greta learned very fast, and while she still has a lot of typical "golden" attributes, she is now very well trained and compliant with walks, sit and stay, come, etc. She is no worse for the wear (of the e-collar!) So My response to the OP is it depends! It depends on the same conditions regardless of the type of training done. Who is doing the training, what is their experience with the specific method, how do they treat your dog and you, and do you feel really uncomfortable with their methods? Are you getting the results you seek in a reasonable time frame?

A little yelping at the first exposure to the e-collar is natural. It doesn't mean the dog must have regular application of a "nick" as it's called. He/she will learn and modify his/her behavior with other verbal and body language cues, and proper use of the leash. That is also where proper training comes in. And you are correct - it really is not painful to us - it's an odd sensation that does attract attention, but it's not like zapping a dog with a stun gun!

You might appreciate the results. But do NOT just buy one yourself and expect the training to go well. It takes much more than a device to bring Fido up to snuff!

Doug, Linda & Greta
 
#16 ·
I agree with NFexec, I feel that most people who are against ecollars have seen people who do not know how to use them properly, or heard stories of the like. Having said that, that's not to say I think the ecollar should be your first choice for basic training. I think it depends on the dog. Some dogs respond great to positive reinforcement, harnesses, different types of collars, while others do not and may still be unruly. Ecollars can be very effective for that type of personality, when used correctly. The important thing is that you train yourself on how to use it (working with trainer, watching the instructional video) before using it with your dog. Also, your dog needs to know the commands you're asking him or her to do before you bring the collar into the picture. If you want your dog to heel, your dog needs to know what heel means and what you expect when you say heel. Then, when you introduce the nick, your dog will understand why he or she is being nicked. If the collar isn't used this way, your dog won't understand why they are being nicked, which could cause a fear based reaction or high stress/anxiety. The collar does not teach the dog, but reinforces the behavior you expect and that your dog already knows. I say do your research and make your own educated decision. Good luck!


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#17 ·
Wow- you have all been SO helpful!!! Thank you so much!!!

I will say when the trainer was there with the e collar Bo never once seemed uncomfortable. We would be using it more than for just loose leash walking- also "drop it" (he likes to pick up rocks), no jumping on people when they come in the house, and a few other things.

We haven't decided to go with it yet. Ive always been against the e collar so I want to exhaust more options first.

thank you again for all your opinions!
 
#23 · (Edited)
Wow- you have all been SO helpful!!! Thank you so much!!!

I will say when the trainer was there with the e collar Bo never once seemed uncomfortable. We would be using it more than for just loose leash walking- also "drop it" (he likes to pick up rocks), no jumping on people when they come in the house, and a few other things.

We haven't decided to go with it yet. Ive always been against the e collar so I want to exhaust more options first.

thank you again for all your opinions!

Sounds like you are doing your homework! Has the trainer used it on him yet? Pulling on the leash, not dropping rocks, and jumping on people all can be dangerous especially with big dogs like goldens. The ecollar is a great reinforcement tool. Not all dogs are equal. FWIW I was also against them until I actually experienced awesome results with my boys. Nobody here is saying slap the collar on the dog and push the button. I highly recommend first hand experience to see for "yourself" how successful this tool is used for training problems without any ill side effects. Good luck!
 
#20 ·
I use an ecollar for a lot of things.
1. Off leash walking I can recall my dogs if they are too far away to hear me.
2. My young dog Lucy is terribly hard on my dog Reilly. He has very bad joint problems. When we are walking off leash, she will jump on him and hurt him and make him cry. I use the ecollar and say leave it. So she will stop. Often she is too far away for me to do a correction.
3. Fieldwork.
4. Forced fetch.

There are many uses. I've never tried for basic loose leash walking since my dogs spend so much time off leash.
 
#21 ·
I have all my Golden's trained for Hunt Tests and waterfowl hunting. Using an ecollar is used by all most all hunters and Field Trial Dogs and Hunt Test Dogs. They are used primarily for safety to correct a dog that is headed for danger (e.g. fence), or chasing an animal. They are often beyond voice or whistle range and the ecollar, if the dog and handler are properly trained, can be used to get the attention of the dog and get him to come.

I have never seen an ecollar used for training heel or walking with a dog! We generally use a pinch collar or choke collar for this step in training. I personally use a pinch collar as it does not constrict the dogs neck, it only pinches the skin/fur to give the dog a correction for pulling or what ever you are training.

Using any of these techniques without professional training and conditioning of the dog is dangerous and can cause physical damage and/or behavioral problems. Do not attempt using them without qualified help.
 
#22 ·
I think some people should be a little more open minded and realize that while positive reinforcement worked for your dog as well as many others, all dogs are different and do not act the same way your dog acts. And yes, positive reinforcement should always be the first method for training. But it doesn't work for every single dog out there. Just had to add this because I think some people do not choose their words carefully and believe that their way is always the best way or that they know more than others.


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#27 ·
Have you tried an heeling stick yet? I use that in conjuction with a thin chain collar. The noise from the chain is all they need and the heeling stick is great because I swish it in front of them to stop them from pulling me when they start to pull. It never touches them but they don't like it so they back up and then I praise them when they are in the correct position. It works really well for me. Once that has been established I start using them less and less until they don't need it anymore.
 
#31 ·
I've done my research on e-collars/shock collars extensively. In the end I have opted against it because in all honesty, I don't put enough effort and time into training Maverick as much I should. Don't get me wrong he is a well trained dog, but outside of our classes we don't really practice as much as we should and that is all my fault. I figured the time it would take me to use new training techniques with a $200+ collar I could use that same time with the same training techniques I use now.

We started hiking on a consistent basis for the past few months and I've again debated the e-collar, but his recall is quite good so it's just a matter of more training and consistency from me. I'm not at all against shock collars (unless wrongfully used), but for now it just doesn't fit my needs. Again, for my specific case it's not about the tools but the time and consistency.

For every story I hear of the collar ruining the dog though, I've heard about 5 more that lead to a well trained dog even without the e-collar on.
 
#32 ·
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#36 ·
I've never used an ecollar, but I do have a friend who used one to break her dogs of chasing wildlife with great success. No lasting ill effects, no mental trauma. Only thing is that her dogs became collar smart very fast, and so every once in a while (less and less as time goes on) they need to wear the collar again for a 'tune-up'. That's my only experience with these collars, but I wouldn't rule it out if I thought my boys might benefit from it in some way.


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