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Old 12-30-2012, 08:47 AM
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Urgent Advice Needed Please!

My 14 months old golden boy attacked me after he was neutered on 21/12/12!

I got him neutered on 21/12/12 and to be on the safe side I was supposed to hospitalized him for 4 days 3 nights as I didn't want him to run and be boisterous with my 10 months old lab girl. When both of them played they can go super crazy hence the hospitalization.

The day he woke up after his surgery I went to pay him a visit and fed him food. I spent time just fussing over him making sure he was alright before I went home. The next day I did the same thing. Went in the morning fed him, baby him and all that before I went home and likewise I did that too in the evening. He looks alright but a bit bored and with some pent up energy. So the third day mid morning after feeding him I asked the vet nurse if I could allow him out to roam about and he said no problem. Oh boy! My golden was like out of prison and he went tearing around the shop - which is also a vet clicnic - upstairs and downstairs and there I was so afraid that he might open up his surgery wound or hurt himself. But he seemed fine. Finally he settled down and allowed the two sales person there and me to rub his belly and fuss over him. All seems well and I asked the vet if I could bring him home instead staying for the last night there. The vet gave me the thumbs up that it's okay to discharge him. So happily we went home. Oh, btw I had the e-collar on him the moment we reach home as I didn't want him to lick his surgical wound. He seemed okay with that. Didn't make any fuss and also I placed him downstairs to sleep on his own with his leash instead of bringing him up to my bedroom cos' I don't want him to play with the lab girl yet. Everything seemed to be going well.

Problem started Monday morning where I usually bring them out for their walk first before their meals. But this time I walked the lab girl first as I didn't want them to get boisterous with each other as I was afraid he might hurt his surgical wound. After walking the girl I took him out and that was when he attacked me. Yep, he literally launched himself at me and nipped me on my clothes. I was totally taken aback and my reaction was immediately shouting at him 'NO!' and tried to push him away. Big mistake! He launched himself at me again and clamped his mouth on my arm. So, there I was pushing away with my arm and hands and shouting 'NO!' but to no avail. It was like he has gone nuts. Mind you he is now 33kg while I'm only 40kg! We have yet even to step out of our house compound. Finally I managed get him back into his play pen which was 12ft long by 3 ft wide. He calmed down but I had bruises on my right arm. I was so angry and disappointed and scolded him. He seemed sorry and even licked my arm as if to apologize. Needless tosay I forgave him.

I thought that was it and reasoned probably he was cooped up in the clinic recuperating pen or cage or whatever you called it for the last 3 days and he just needed to release his pent-up energy. So, an hour later i managed to walk him but just a short walk and let him do his biz as usual and then came back, fed him and then put on his e-collar again and leashed him to the front door while the lab girl was now in the play pen. Evening time I took the lab girl out walked and then him without anymore incident but same thing he slept downstairs with his e-collar later in the night.

Tuesday morning I had big bruises on my arms already but I just brushed it aside and did the same thing with them both and without incident.

Wednesday came morning does the same thing and then evening! Yup, the evening walked he attacked me again. He kept lunging for me and I kept warding him off with my arms until I couldn't take it. This time we were somewhere in the neighbourhood so I can't drag him back to the house to put him in the play pen. No choice I tied him to a stop sign post! My neighbour happened to walk by there saw us and came over to enquire and I told them that my golden attack me. They were shocked as they know he never attack anything or anyone let alone me! I told them I got him neutered and he turned from being a loving fun boy to a monster! They told me to check with the vet which was my intention too.

Thursday I didn't check with the vet as I've friends who came over so I went out with them.

Friday came I took him to the vet and let the vet checked him over and also I told the vet what happened. She was totally shocked at his behaviour as I've all the bruises to show. She then told me most likely was due to his hormones fluctuation from the loss of his testes and this fluctuation can last anywhere between from a month to 3 months! before stablizing. I was like, what???!!! So, she advice me to take it slow with him and be patient with his hormonal imbalances. How to be patient if he continues to attack me which happened again just past Friday evening after the visit to the vet.

I took the lab girl out for her walk and found a schnauzer wandering far off his home whom I know which house he belonged to. So I picked him up and went to his home but his owner wasn't home yet but his neighbour knew the owner and the dog and took him in first. I didn't think much about it and went home with my lab girl and went to get my boy. He took one sniff of me and launched himself at me! He was very aggressive and angry which I could sense. He was rubbing himself on me and at the same time nipping and biting at me as if to get rid of the other dog smell. It was really frightening. I tried to wrestle him down. Big mistake again! He went even crazier! and bit me even harder. This time both my arms are bruised badly.

Yet tonight he launched himself at me again just after serving him his dinner. (I'm cutting short here as I'm hurting physically and emotionally). I felt totally devastated at him for acting like that. I don't think I can wait 3 months out for his hormones to stabilize. I might just get mauled to death by my once adorable, obedient and on occasion boisterous boy who has never bitten me like that before during his growing years except puppyhood.

So, please, please, please someone give me any sound advice as to what to do with my boy before I got no choice but to send him away which will be my last resort.

Last edited by LusciousLeah; 12-30-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:03 AM
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Are there any behaviorists in Singapore? You need to see on immediately. From your email I can't figure out your dog's motivation. He may just be trying to engage you in play, especially if he is used to rough-housing with the lab pup and he has not been able to for several days. The fact that he is starting out nipping you and has not yet broken the skin also points to out of control playing.

Although it has only been 9 days, I would let him play with the lab and see if that doesn't end his biting you. However, even if it does, you still need to train, train, train to teach him to settle when you ask him to. One way to do it is to train a tug game with an immediate release when you tell him to.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:56 AM
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I agree with Selli-Belle, my first reaction is to guess he is trying to engage you in play and with all his pent-up energy is just getting a little rough with you especially since he is used to playing rough with your Lab. Sounds like he's healed enough to run & play with his sister.

When my guy gets wound up he has a habit of jumping at our face, he doesn't mean to be aggressive but wants to "kiss". It can surprise an unsuspecting visitor!
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:29 AM
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I feel so bad this has happened to you. I completely understand your mixed emotions and confusion about this. I agree with Sellie-Belle also - try to get a behaviorist to help you. If you need a recommendation to find one, start with your vet and/or the vet's staff.

While you are working on this, please order some protective gloves or bite sleeves that you can wear while the problem is still on-going. It sounds like your arms are the point of contact and this way you will not be getting hurt and will give you some measure of control over the situation until he settles back down.
Here is a link, PetEdge is a good company I have used but there are others who sell these and similar:

http://www.petedge.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=43722&cm_mmc=Google-_-Pet%20Supplies%20PLA_Pet%20Supplies%20Collars%20Le ads-_-{creative}-_-Pet%20Supplies%20Collars%20Leads_Exact&gclid=CKK6s sqnwrQCFdKd4AodiRMAVw

http://www.petedge.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=57360&cm_mmc=Shopping-_-NextagShop-_-CollarLeadsHarnessesTraining-_-ZT2291417
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:51 PM
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I wonder if he is in pain from his operation. His testosterone level didn't drop to zero - it takes weeks for the levels to drop significantly.

Do you have a crate or X-pen? When our dogs were too rough we immediately said "no" firmly and then gave them time outs. It didn't take all that long before each one realized that rough play meant no play.

Please keep us updated - it's no fun being all bruised up.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:07 AM
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Hi all,

Thanks everyone for their input and concern.

Ok, let me answer to some questions first.

Firstly, I don't live in Singapore anymore. As mention in my other posts I shifted back to Johor which is the most southern state of Malaysia which is actually 10 mins across the Causeway to Singapore. So, I live in Johor but still traverse almost everyday to and fro to Singapore to work.

Now Singapore is a dog friendly country and Singapore has lots of vets, dog parks, trainers and animals behaviourists unlike in Malaysia which is very dog unfriendly country due to a number of reasons which I've also mention in my other posts.

This state I'm staying in has vets but no animals behaviourists. You can't even find decent reasonable qualified trainers.

I can't bring my lovable puppies over to Singapore due to border restrictions. Singapore is free of rabies wherese in Malaysia there are still cases of rabies but rare. If I want to bring my puppies over to Singapore they will be quarantine for 2 months before they are being release. So it's a lot of hassles.

I don't think my golden boy is in pain. He doesn't seem or act like he was in pain after the surgery. The vet did gently press on his surgical wound but he didn't show any sign of discomfort. Matter of fact he was wagging his tail. And yes, I've a large play pet which is 12ft long and 3 ft wide. So, if both of them played too rough until they growled at each other I'll separate them. One, will be in the pen while the other leashed up to the door to calm down. But it's always the lab girl that is stirring shiat up. She just love love love to fight and antagonized the boy. Her fight started out as play fight but when she can't win she get rough and that's where I'll separate them. Funnily is, whenever bedtime comes, (both sleeps in my bedroom, they don't fight!) They will even sleep together. But the moment they came down the stairs it's play fight all the way from morning till evening if they could unless I separate them. The boy will always give way to her. He would be on his back and his belly up while she will be on top of him biting his ears, tails paws and neck. You get the idea.

It's the 10th day after his operation and he is already play fighting with her and I don't see him in any pain.

This afternoon I came back after lunch and I took the lab girl out to pee then the boy. After the boy peed he tried to grab my arms again but before he get the chance I quickly leashed him back to the main door and tell him 'NO BITING' loudly. Well, he knew he was leashed back to the door so he flipped himself over to me for a belly rub which I did but also telling him again 'NO BITING'. But I didn't want to take the risk to loose him and kept him by the door.

An hour later I put him in the play pen with the lab girl and as usual they have their play. I think it's good for them also. I went into the play pen as well and he didn't grab me but continue to spar with the girl and I was stroking both of them without much incident.

Goldy1 - That was a good suggestion but I can't buy any of those in this state. If I have to I got to go into Singapore to get it which I won't be able to until Wednesday. Today being new year eve and tomorrow new year's day so most shops close early or off. I'll just have to wear some thick long sleeves clothes for the time being.

Well, I've left a message for the vet to call me back hopefully he can shed some light on as to why my boy 'attack' me. Apparently this vet has some experience or some knowledge about the behaviour of dogs. Maybe he might help me. Meantime my poor arms are both blue, red and bruise. It's really very prominent bruises. LOL! Some neighbours saw it and thought I got into a fight or got abused by my partner.

I'll try to keep everyone update about my boy. Meanwhile please do give me more advice on how to handle my little boy. I love him to pieces but if he continues to attack me, I'll have no choice but to send him away if things don't improve.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:10 PM
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Can you get a behaviorist to come to where you live? They can cross the border can't they? If not, get a video tape of the situation and you can send it to Tufts University in the US. They do video consults. I really think you need to have someone who has expertise in dog interactions to see if your dogs are playing or fighting.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:46 PM
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Now that he is able to wrestle play with your other dog, are you still having an issue?

I have had many male dogs neutered, all of them over a year old, and never had any behavior changes other than them no longer humping things.

When our 14 month old GSD had suddenly lost his playmate, he started to bite and play wrestle with me. Yes, he ripped my jeans and I had some bruises. Anybody on the outside world would have thought he was mauling me, but I realized he was trying to play with me like he did our other dog. Two weeks later we introduced him to a new puppy, and he never touched me like that again.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:27 AM
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Hi all,

Just to update everyone about my neutered boy. He seems to have calm down over the days although he did still try (if he can) to bite my arms once in a while but more on a cautious manner like as though he is testing water. I put my foot down and firmly tells him off. That work, I think. Only thing is he still don't like to be grabbed by the collar. With a leash he was fine if I pulled but without he just get mouthy if I grabbed it.

The vet did a house visit and analyzed his behaviour coming to the 'conclusion' that he was stressed up being confined for 3 days at the clinic without much mobility. Still I don't quite like his new behaviour. He now growled. Yup, he growled. Previously he do bark at strangers if they walked past our house but now he growled which to me is an aggressive sign.

Just past Sunday I took him back to swimming and then later on there were another 2 other golden puppies aged 4 months joined in and the rascal actually grab the female golden by the scruff! which frightens me too. Thank goodness about 15 mins later they were playing together nicely.

I always thought that majority neutered male would exhibit much calmer personality after the op. Is it not the case?

Anyone can share their experience about their neutered boys?
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbysan View Post
Now that he is able to wrestle play with your other dog, are you still having an issue?

I have had many male dogs neutered, all of them over a year old, and never had any behavior changes other than them no longer humping things.

When our 14 month old GSD had suddenly lost his playmate, he started to bite and play wrestle with me. Yes, he ripped my jeans and I had some bruises. Anybody on the outside world would have thought he was mauling me, but I realized he was trying to play with me like he did our other dog. Two weeks later we introduced him to a new puppy, and he never touched me like that again.
Talking about humping. Hmm... he still humped after almost 4 weeks neutering. Is that normal? Oh! And believe me my spayed girl humped my boy! But according to some this is just a sign of being dominant. Is that so?
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