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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nairb View Post
I don't have the confidence you have that I could pull the dog off in the manner you described. I won't take that chance. That method works best if you have two people.

Have you seen these photos of people who have attempted to break up dog fights?

Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

I have had dogs approach in the dark, and I have yet to use it. I hope I never have to.
Certainly, it's not an easy situation or an ideal one to be in. I still would argue that it's better than injuring somebody else's dog because you think it may attack.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
Certainly, it's not an easy situation or an ideal one to be in. I still would argue that it's better than injuring somebody else's dog because you think it may attack.
As I said, I sincerely hope it never happens, but I will err on the side of protecting my leashed dog in the event that it does. Either way, the dog will live another day, and its highly unlikely to cause permanent damage. I'm not at all concerned about the other owner, because their dog is legally required to be on a leash in my city.

We'll have to respectfully disagree on this one. If it ever happens, I'll post about it, but I wouldn't hold my breath, because I'm not as likely to deploy the spray as you may think. It's there if I need it, but I really don't want to do it.


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Old 01-02-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Nairb View Post
We'll have to respectfully disagree on this one. If it ever happens, I'll post about it, but I wouldn't hold my breath, because I'm not as likely to deploy the spray as you may think. It's there if I need it, but I really don't want to do it.
I surely have no opinions on how likely you are to pepper spray an approaching dog. I simply stated that I didn't feel it was responsible to do so when there was any chance the dog was simply posturing and wasn't going to attack and that there was no way of determining that until it was too late to use pepper spray. I cannot see a scenario in which a responsible person pepper sprays a dog for approaching their dog, no matter what body language appears to be happening.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
I surely have no opinions on how likely you are to pepper spray an approaching dog. I simply stated that I didn't feel it was responsible to do so when there was any chance the dog was simply posturing and wasn't going to attack and that there was no way of determining that until it was too late to use pepper spray. I cannot see a scenario in which a responsible person pepper sprays a dog for approaching their dog, no matter what body language appears to be happening.
Even though I disagree, I respect your opinion.

Let me throw another scenario at you. Lets say I'm in the park with my 8 year old daughter, and a large dog approaches growling and snapping. Would you suggest the same course of action, or do you believe it appropriate to deploy the spray. Assume for the sake of argument that our dog is not with us.

Edit: Also no owner in sight.


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Old 01-02-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nairb View Post
Even though I disagree, I respect your opinion.

Let me throw another scenario at you. Lets say I'm in the park with my 8 year old daughter, and a large dog approaches growling and snapping. Would you suggest the same course of action, or do you believe it appropriate to deploy the spray. Assume for the sake of argument that our dog is not with us.
Since I wouldn't carry pepper spray in the first place, it's sort of a moot question, and it makes little sense to answer hypotheticals about fictional dog body language like this. What dog on the attack would really approach as you describe, and how would you have any idea whether it meant a bite was imminent? Suffice it to say that I would risk injuring a strange dog if it meant protecting a child or my own dog. However, I don't regard subjective interpretations of dog body language to be cause for injuring a dog preemptively. A dog isn't definitively attacking until he has begun attacking.

There is a basic difference of worldview here. I don't believe that carrying a weapon is an effective means of protecting oneself from situations one is likely to encounter out and about while walking a dog. For each million-to-one hypothetical scenario in which you successfully stop a dog who was definitively going to hurt your own dog or child, there are many infinitely more likely scenarios in which you accidentally spray a harmless dog, accidentally spray your own dog or child, accidentally discharge the weapon in a harmless context and hurt a bystander or yourself, or never get it actually deployed in the first place. Seriously, how realistic is it that somebody could effectively and accurately deploy and discharge a weapon of any kind one-handed in the handful of seconds they'd have between making the judgment call about dog body language and the arrival of the strange dog?

And, at the end of the day, I've never seen a dog attack preceded by the kind of "growling and snapping" approach you're describing. Dogs who are going to attack, in my experience, come up slowly and stiffly with hard, steady looks, and it's a very nuanced judgment call to know if a dog is coming up nervously to greet or if he's coming up to make a true biting attack. Dogs that come up loud and mouthy usually turn out to be over-exuberant players.

It's just not a realistic scenario. Hypothetically? Yes, I'd have no problem risking injury to a strange dog if he legitimately threatened me, my dog, or a child I was responsible for. In reality? You can't walk around with your pepper spray—or whatever—drawn and aimed at any dog who approaches just in case he turns aggressive at some point.

I feel like my dogs and I are much more in danger from people armed with things they think will protect themselves and a false sense of their own judgment and accuracy. I can easily imagine my dogs being wasp sprayed by a dog-aversive person on a trail because they came within ten or fifteen feet before I called them back. I cannot, however, imagine how I would successfully get pepper spray into the eyes of an aggressive dog without an unacceptably high risk of hurting a totally harmless one—or other sorts of accidents.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:04 AM
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Regardless of what constitutes an aggressive stance, it sounds like you agree that there are scenarios that would justify protecting a dog or child. But I accept your reasoning for being against carrying the spray. I just disagree. Thanks for the response.


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Old 01-02-2013, 09:07 AM
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Regardless of what constitutes an aggressive stance, it sounds like you agree that there are scenarios that would justify protecting a dog or child. But I accept your reasoning for being against carrying the spray. I just disagree. Thanks for the response.
No problem. Thanks for the reasonable, friendly dialogue on the issue.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:39 AM
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I often wonder why people think a more dangerous weapon is the answer to a charged situation. If you recall, the OP asks about a "little foo foo shih tzu," so it seems a little ridiculous to me that the conversation is now about whether you're allowed to spray "wasp spray" in a dog's eyes because he's acting scary. Spraying pesticides in the eyes of an animal because his owner is a fool seems to be to go beyond overkill into the realm of foolishness and cruelty.

If a dog seems to be charging, it's too soon to try to kill or maim him (and don't fool yourself that you're doing anything but risking putting out both his eyes of you spray insecticide in them). What seems like an aggressive charge many simply be a bluff on the part of the approaching animal or even friendly excitement that you and/or your dog are misinterpreting.

You don't really know if a dog is going to attack until after it's attacking, at which point, spraying or shooting the animal risks as much damage to your own dog as to the attacker. Hurting the other dog before the attack means risking being wrong about the intent of the dog's approach. Using a weapon on the other dog after the attack begins is nigh-impossible without hurting your own.

If your dog is being charged and you're sure it's going to be bad, be big and loud and get between the other dog and yours. Then, be clear to the owner that allowing a dog to approach without checking first is bad dog etiquette at best and dangerous at worst.

If a dog truly locks on yours, pull him away by his rear legs, and deliver a hard jab behind his sort ribs if he won't let go. If he's intact, hit him there. Report the incident. That's what you can do. Arming yourself with a can of bear spray or something similar is just silly. It means that you're going to hurt a potentially innocent dog just for approaching with the appearance of aggression. A bigger can of bear spray or wasp spray—or whatever other weaponized item you care to bring along—is just going to cause more collateral damage when you deploy it, and it's extremely unlikely to help an untrained individual create a situation with less danger for all involved.
I totally agree with this entire post.

The other point that I haven't seen make here - in response the the original post - is walk in the other direction. The OP talks about everytime she walks by this little foo foo dog's house. Well.... don't walk by. You have a choice, too. I know I'll probably get jumped on by people saying, she has the freedom to walk where she wants, why should her right to walk on the street be less than the foo dog's, etc etc. Well, really? Is it that important to you to walk on that particular block of street? More important than your dog's safety? Get over it and walk somewhere else.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:58 AM
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A1 - I concur with Karen519 and the others that mentioned a video. I used to carry a small audio recorder in my pocket (at first I just happened to have it - I used to ask my daughter to record herself reading the history book out loud, I would listen to it in the car and then as her questions the next day from what she read - that was both for reading out loud and for reading comprehension exercises). It did help though at a gas station where this woman blocked me and when I went inside and nicely asked her to move her vehicle in the available parking spaces she started accusing me of being racist, I showed her the camera and I picked up my cell asking if she would rather me call the police. She threw all the chip bags to the ground and left.
Since then I do carry a small pocket size video camera. They come in different sizes and are quite affordable. Unfortunately there are many crazies out there and it comes in handy to avoid any he said she said or he did she did. I had the camera with me both times Rose was attacked by another dog. In both instances it was nothing serious - first was at the park and my DH was able to stop it by putting himself between me and the other dog, Rose was behind me; second was at my SIL's house, the GS got a hold of Rose but no damage. I let the SIL do the talking with the owner of the GS since they were neighbors.
I would check with either an attorney or a cop in your area. I actually called the police department to check if a cap gun can legally be used in my yard. The cop was very nice and he even gave me his name and contact number if any neighbor complained. Thru his advise though I have contacted the neighbors and did advise them that we may use the cap gun for training in our yard and to come talk to us if the timing of this use is inappropriate for them (ie: someone is sick, someone works night shifts and sleep during the day...etc).
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:21 AM
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I think the OP has stated that she tried walking the other way (longer walk - and if that situation is similar as mine the longer walk for us mean taking a gravel road, coming back on a busy highway and then finally making it back into the neighborhood - coming back means again taking the busy highway and then back on the gravel road which would make the outing easily a three hour walk).

Also the OP stated that she is trying to walk her dog when the neighbor is at work - that cannot always be predicted.
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