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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 08:35 PM
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:42 AM
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Both of my Goldens are adopted, my girl from a GR Rescue and I adopted my boy from my County Humane Society, both of them are altered per the Adoption Contract.

All Rescue Groups and Shelters have written policies, procedures, and Adoption Contracts you sign and agree to follow when you Adopt from them. All potential Adoption Applicants are made fully aware of these requirements and that is just one reason why Rescue Groups screen their applicants so thoroughly. Unfortunately, some shelters do not. Most of these groups have their Adoption Policies posted on their website and it is also clearly stated in the paperwork you receive when you adopt as well as in the Adoption Contract you sign.

You do not purchase an animal from a Rescue Group or Shelter, you pay an Adoption Fee which helps off set the medical expenses and care of that animal. The Adoption Fees never cover all the expenses, they only cover a very small portion of them.

There is a very good reason why Shelters and Rescue Groups require animals be altered, it is to curtail pet overpopulation and also to help eliviate the ever increasing large number of animals being euthanised weekly in shelters in every State across the US, which by the way is at the expense of all taxpayers.

The GR Rescue I adopted my girl from, clearly states, if the adopter is not following the procedures or abiding by the Adoption Contract, the dog will become the property of the Rescue Group.

Perhaps if your relative does not want to adhere to the Adoption Agreement or pay the fine, then maybe it would be in her best interest to return the dog to the shelter.

Last edited by CAROLINA MOM; 11-18-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:58 AM
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"You do not purchase an animal from a Rescue Group or Shelter, you pay an Adoption Fee which helps off set the medical expenses and care of that animal. The Adoption Fees never cover all the expenses, they only cover a very small portion of them."

I agree that depending on the dog the fee most likely will not cover the price it cost to care for the dog of the rescue or shelter.
If I go to a shelter and offer money for a dog and the shelter accepts the money it is a purchase.
Because we are purchasing a sentient being it does sound much nicer to adopt than to purchase and I think most people would prefer to use the term adopt since the animal becomes loved and a family member but it is definately a purchase.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:08 AM
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The Maryland SPCA offers low-cost neutering: Spay and Neuter Clinic - Maryland SPCA.

Here is a resource with a lot of information about laws related to spay/neuter requirements: A Survey of State Spay and Neuter Laws. Not being a lawyer and having no experience in contesting such laws, I can't vouch for the quality of the information.

There is at least one large group of people who oppose mandatory spay/neuter laws, so you are not really alone in this world: http://saveourdogs.net/2009/04/01/ma...re-everywhere/.

I believe the primary argument of those who favor mandatory spay/neuter laws is the huge number of animals that are euthanized each year because nobody wants them and the alternative is starvation in the wild. That number exceeded 45,000 in Maryland alone during 2011.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by solinvictus View Post
"You do not purchase an animal from a Rescue Group or Shelter, you pay an Adoption Fee which helps off set the medical expenses and care of that animal. The Adoption Fees never cover all the expenses, they only cover a very small portion of them."

I agree that depending on the dog the fee most likely will not cover the price it cost to care for the dog of the rescue or shelter.
If I go to a shelter and offer money for a dog and the shelter accepts the money it is a purchase.
Because we are purchasing a sentient being it does sound much nicer to adopt than to purchase and I think most people would prefer to use the term adopt since the animal becomes loved and a family member but it is definately a purchase.
I understand what you're saying and respect it.

I don't look at it as purchase, because I know the money I am giving the shelter or the Rescue Group helps offset their expenses for that animal's care.

I helped the GR Rescue I got my girl from, it takes a lot of Fundraisers, donations, and Grants to keep the Groups going so they can continue to bring in Goldens and place them. When the economy is tough, it can be very challenging to bring in funds while the number of dogs in need increases.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:54 AM
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The two kittens we adopted from the Richardson AC were only $3 each. I didn't have exact change, so they got a donation.
The contract stated that they had 30 days to get their rabies vaccine and be spayed/neutered or per State of Texas Law, a sheriff would be showing up at my door. We had to show two forms of ID with our current address.
My vet thought they were too young to get their rabies and be spayed, so her wrote a nice letter to them, stating so and giving them the dates for their appts for rabies and spay. I FAXed it over and double-checked to make sure they got it. They were fine with it - the AC officier said, they just want to make sure that the animals are taken care of and that we don't contribute to the problem of too many animals.

Banker was neutered at 18 months, as current research indicates that larger breed dogs due better with a later spay/neuter. I have only had one escapee in 35 years (Ben was out the gate that the yard guys left open - I found him withn 5 minutes of his getting out), but I would hate to think that he could have contributed to a litter at that time (he was neutered).
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CAROLINA MOM View Post
You do not purchase an animal from a Rescue Group or Shelter, you pay an Adoption Fee which helps off set the medical expenses and care of that animal. The Adoption Fees never cover all the expenses, they only cover a very small portion of them.
I understand what you're saying and often use the term "adopt" myself, partly for those reasons, and partly because I am someone who feels like my dog is a member of the family. Having said that, though, the term "purchase" is not technically incorrect when you pay a fee and obtain an animal for the rest of it's natural life who is considered property in a legal sense.

So, I use both terms. I go back and forth fairly randomly, though in some cases where I use "purchase" (Not in all cases, sometimes it's just random) it's to underline that a price was paid for a dog who the new owner has, well, ownership of, versus paying $100 a year to lease the dog from it's actual owner or something. Generally, this is in discussions where we are talking about a theoretical or actual situation where owners want to make the choice they feel is best for their beloved pet, who they have legal ownership of, and are forbidden from doing so from contracts that I'd typically more readily associate with a lease when it comes to the non-animal world.

That's not to say the contracts are illegal, it's just one of the analogies I use to describe one of the elements of my personal perspective on the matter and why I avoid signing them and advise others who I think generally would share my beliefs on the matter if they were aware of the implications of some of these contracts and some real life examples of how they are used against owners (Such as my relative, who I doubt will be signing a contract for a dog again after her current experience) not to. I know some will continue to sign them, either because they agree with the practice, don't care much one way or the other (At least not enough to look outside the humane society/shelter system for a pet), feel strongly that they want to adopt from an organization that demands a contract for reasons unrelated to the contract despite their opposition to it, or can not find a pet outside the contractual system who meets their needs (Possibly in terms, price, breed, etc.), and all of that is fine.

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Perhaps if your relative does not want to adhere to the Adoption Agreement or pay the fine, then maybe it would be in her best interest to return the dog to the shelter.
Obviously, my relative is not going to return her beloved pet who she's had for several months, and who her children play with, to an uncertain future in a shelter where they'll still neuter it and perhaps it won't find a new home. I understand what you're saying, but it's out of the question for her.

As I said, ultimately, she has decided she will neuter the dog, though only after looking into the cost of vasectomy and seeing if that is something that is financially prudent for her and would satisfy her local human society (I've heard conflicting things about the cost of vasectomies, so she'll look into how things work in her area). I think her ideal solution, like mine, would be to do neither, but that is unfortunately not an option at this point- admittedly partially her fault because she should have read the contract before signing it (Though I think they may be some element her of humane society officials verbally playing up the refundable deposit and not mentioning the potential fine at all and hiding it somewhere figuring most people don't read the contract. She still should have read it, but the humane society may want to consider a large sign or making sure people are verbally aware of their policy before adopting a pet.).

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There is at least one large group of people who oppose mandatory spay/neuter laws, so you are not really alone in this world: http://saveourdogs.net/2009/04/01/ma...re-everywhere/.
Thank you. I have opened the site in a new tab and will take a look at it when I am done responding to posts on the forum. I have also received a private message from someone who agrees with me. So it is nice to know that I am not the only one.

Quote:
I believe the primary argument of those who favor mandatory spay/neuter laws is the huge number of animals that are euthanized each year because nobody wants them and the alternative is starvation in the wild. That number exceeded 45,000 in Maryland alone during 2011.
I understand the reasoning, but I am not sure the ends justify the means. I also know I personally could not live with myself if I did that to my dog (That's not an attempt to condemn those who do or to make anyone feel guilty- I am just saying that personal beliefs would prevent me from doing it without feeling immense guilt).

Again, I do want to underline that I not condemning anyone who makes a different decision or who has different beliefs than I have on this issue. I understand where you folks are coming from, and respect your feelings on the matter. I just respectfully disagree, and support a legal framework that allows this to be or stay a matter of personal choice rather than an official legal mandate.

Last edited by Golden999; 11-18-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:13 PM
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...some real life examples of how they are used against owners...
You see it as "against owners." Some of us see things like spay/neuter agreements as being "for dogs" instead of "against owners."
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:43 PM
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You see it as "against owners." Some of us see things like spay/neuter agreements as being "for dogs" instead of "against owners."
So agree with you Tippy, the contracts are for the protection of the animals. The rules/regulations/policies, whatever you want to call it are for the protection of the animals whether it be a Shelter or Rescue Group.

Everyone has a choice, if you don't agree with the policies, contract terms, then make a different choice. But if you choose to get an animal from a shelter or Rescue Group, you are making the choice to adhere to their policies. The Adoption contract says you are agreeing with these terms when you sign it.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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I understand the reasoning, but I am not sure the ends justify the means. I also know I personally could not live with myself if I did that to my dog (That's not an attempt to condemn those who do or to make anyone feel guilty- I am just saying that personal beliefs would prevent me from doing it without feeling immense guilt).
I to would never be able to neuter without feeling guilt. I still to this day feel very guilty I mutilated my current male. A lot of people use the "Oh, male humans tend to have issues with neutering" when really that holds no water because I am a female myself. I hold personal beliefs to certain things and in all honesty this is one reason why I refuse to purchase a dog from a humane society or rescue group that does not respect my wishes to keep my dog intact. So, I go to reputable breeders or in Lincolns case a BYB.
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