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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mich4242 View Post
I have recently adopted a 6 month old golden and we have been going to puppy classes. I don't think his old owners walked him much and when they did he was on a choke chain. I have had him on a longer lead so he can explore and run about and enjoy himself, but on path and roadway pulling him in tighter and controlling him. I have been taking him to puppy classes, and the trainer said he should be on a full choke chain to control him, he is quite a big boy and strong but gradually over the last few weeks i feel he has improved on the lead. I was quite happy with his behaviour in class today, feeling he is slowly getting better

The trainer demonstrated the use of a choke chain on him, i could tell he was confused and distressed, growling and whining, he was being pulled in all directions and even when he was standing still he was being tugged to move he stopped growling and yelped like he was in pain. He generally tries to please and I could tell he didnt understand what was expected of him. I couldn't look it was horrible, and when she let go of him he ran and hid behind my legs.

The trainer informed me i would have to walk him on a choke chain otherwise he would become aggressive. I was very upset when i left the class I feel he is such a good little lad who hasn't had the best start in life and i dont want him to be frightened.

I know i have to be firm and be in control but I don't know what to do, he is easy to train inside the house and never has shown any aggression towards anyone.

Just need some advice really,
You need a different trainer. I've used a choke chain on Tucker, but if he had reacted as yours did, it would have ended right there. A GR who wants to please can be taught to walk on a leash without a tool that scares him. Good luck!
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 12:04 AM
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First get a new trainer. Do not use a choke chain. Do not let anyone handle your dog. I am a trainer and if I was going to handle someone it would be with a familiar dog or one who couldn't care who handles them. I would never take a insecure dog. Either way I would never handle a dog the way this trainer did. A good trainer would have recognized right away this method wasn't right for your dog. If you do get help and you see something you don't like step in and say that is enough and take your dog back. Choke chains choke. If your dog pulls or you pull the chain zips to a full choke. The only time I use it is in the obedience show ring and they already know how to walk nice. Collar is insignificant. If he is whining and reacting that way it is definitely being handled incorrectly on it. The only part of this situation that will make him aggressive is being hurt while he is being handled like that. I have to say my favorite is the prong collar. They are very kind collars. They look scary but they do not poke the dog they give them what I call a hug. The nice thing is no matter how hard you pull they can only close to a safe size unlike the choker that can keep tightening into a full choke. When fitted correctly dogs do not usually pull and it keeps them in great control without hurting them or you. The most important thing with the collars is that they need to be fitted correctly in the right position. If your dog is a puller a martingale will also choke. Harnesses teach dogs to pull (sled dog syndrome) gentle leaders work on some but don't always give you full control. I know gentle leaders have been successful but personally the harnesses and gentle leaders bother me that I can't enjoy my dog without all the straps. It just looks so uncomfortable for them. I use the prongs almost all the time when walking my dogs. The exception is when we are on the beach or park when I have them on a full long line run. Then I just use their buckle that can get wet.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 12:25 AM
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If you let us know where you're at we can help you locate a trainer that is certified.

The UK is in many ways way ahead of North American when it comes to training so I'm surprised you found a trainer like this. Eek!

Jacqueline

"I have just met you and I love you" - Dug (Up!)


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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mich4242 View Post
I have recently adopted a 6 month old golden and we have been going to puppy classes. I don't think his old owners walked him much and when they did he was on a choke chain. I have had him on a longer lead so he can explore and run about and enjoy himself, but on path and roadway pulling him in tighter and controlling him. I have been taking him to puppy classes, and the trainer said he should be on a full choke chain to control him, he is quite a big boy and strong but gradually over the last few weeks i feel he has improved on the lead. I was quite happy with his behaviour in class today, feeling he is slowly getting better

The trainer demonstrated the use of a choke chain on him, i could tell he was confused and distressed, growling and whining, he was being pulled in all directions and even when he was standing still he was being tugged to move he stopped growling and yelped like he was in pain. He generally tries to please and I could tell he didnt understand what was expected of him. I couldn't look it was horrible, and when she let go of him he ran and hid behind my legs.

The trainer informed me i would have to walk him on a choke chain otherwise he would become aggressive. I was very upset when i left the class I feel he is such a good little lad who hasn't had the best start in life and i dont want him to be frightened.

I know i have to be firm and be in control but I don't know what to do, he is easy to train inside the house and never has shown any aggression towards anyone.

Just need some advice really,
Keep in mind we are not dealing with a small puppy here. This pup has had time to establish some undesirable behaviours (bad habits) before you got him. It is a different proposition to extinguish undesirable behaviours and replace them with desired behaviour than it is to undertake starting a young pup from scratch.

First, you must determine what it is YOU are tying to accomplish with the pup. What are your expectations for the pup? Have you communicated your expectations and goals for the pup to the trainer?

Next, review the trainers credentials and accomplishments. If they have a proven track record of accomplishment, you may want to listen to what they have to say. They may see things in the pup that you don't yet at this point in time.

If the trainer doesn't possess any credentials to speak of, you may want to seek the aid of a more experienced trainer to help you.

"You own what you condone." ~ Mike Lardy
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 03:02 AM
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There are many really good trainers in the UK using positive reinforcement training Where about do you live? Choke chains/ check chains are really frowned upon by good trainers. Personally I would go back to the beginnning using a tidbit and hold it in front of his nose and say heel, off the lead in the garden to start with and give him the food as soon as he is walking by you. Have a pocket full of food when you walk him in your pocket nearest him and do the same on the lead, see if that helps Annef

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:06 AM
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Find A New Trainer! This one is backwards!

I do what I like and like what I do. Yorkies- Cozy (4/1/06), Roxy & Zoey (2/11/08), Lucy (4/6/09); Golden- Buddy (4/13/09- Rescued 12/11) Maine Coon cats- Mika (1998) and Tallulah (2000)
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:18 AM
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mich4242 View Post
I have recently adopted a 6 month old golden and we have been going to puppy classes. I don't think his old owners walked him much and when they did he was on a choke chain. I have had him on a longer lead so he can explore and run about and enjoy himself, but on path and roadway pulling him in tighter and controlling him. I have been taking him to puppy classes, and the trainer said he should be on a full choke chain to control him, he is quite a big boy and strong but gradually over the last few weeks i feel he has improved on the lead. I was quite happy with his behaviour in class today, feeling he is slowly getting better

The trainer demonstrated the use of a choke chain on him, i could tell he was confused and distressed, growling and whining, he was being pulled in all directions and even when he was standing still he was being tugged to move he stopped growling and yelped like he was in pain. He generally tries to please and I could tell he didnt understand what was expected of him. I couldn't look it was horrible, and when she let go of him he ran and hid behind my legs.

The trainer informed me i would have to walk him on a choke chain otherwise he would become aggressive. I was very upset when i left the class I feel he is such a good little lad who hasn't had the best start in life and i dont want him to be frightened.

I know i have to be firm and be in control but I don't know what to do, he is easy to train inside the house and never has shown any aggression towards anyone.

Just need some advice really,
RUN away from this trainer, and trust your instinct about your boy. A young golden who is simply untrained does not need harsh corrections, he needs positive guidance. Using harsh corrections when he's never had to behave in an expected manner may damage his trust in you. I prefer methods that allow for the dog to choose to perform the correct behaviours instead of being forced into them.

I haven't got a name of a positive dog training facility in the UK, but perhaps this link can help be a springboard for you to conduct your own search.

http://positivedogtrainers.co.uk/waggamania/

I agree with Ranger on suggesting the martingale collar. I would suggest one without a chain. They offer a gentle reminder and they are almost slip proof when on a walk.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/2510797...Types&var=sbar

Last edited by Lilliam; 11-14-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:16 PM
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I am not an expert to give you an advice, but certainly would look for a new trainer.


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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mich4242 View Post
I have recently adopted a 6 month old golden and we have been going to puppy classes. I don't think his old owners walked him much and when they did he was on a choke chain. I have had him on a longer lead so he can explore and run about and enjoy himself, but on path and roadway pulling him in tighter and controlling him. I have been taking him to puppy classes, and the trainer said he should be on a full choke chain to control him, he is quite a big boy and strong but gradually over the last few weeks i feel he has improved on the lead. I was quite happy with his behaviour in class today, feeling he is slowly getting better

The trainer demonstrated the use of a choke chain on him, i could tell he was confused and distressed, growling and whining, he was being pulled in all directions and even when he was standing still he was being tugged to move he stopped growling and yelped like he was in pain. He generally tries to please and I could tell he didnt understand what was expected of him. I couldn't look it was horrible, and when she let go of him he ran and hid behind my legs.

The trainer informed me i would have to walk him on a choke chain otherwise he would become aggressive. I was very upset when i left the class I feel he is such a good little lad who hasn't had the best start in life and i dont want him to be frightened.

I know i have to be firm and be in control but I don't know what to do, he is easy to train inside the house and never has shown any aggression towards anyone.

Just need some advice really,


FIND A NEW TRAINER - DO NOT GO BACK TO THIS IDIOT - HE WILL RUIN YOUR DOG.

My apologies for the shouting, but this idiot will quickly turn your puppy into an aggressive or fearful dog if you continue to use these methods. Please find another trainer to take classes from, one that uses positive methods and will show you to how to teach your dog to understand what you want.

"To my mind, I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man."
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Mahatma Gandhi

Golden Retriever Rescue of North Texas
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