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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:49 PM
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I absolutely believe that some dog shootings are warranted. And I have two uncles that are police officers, so I know the risks they take on a daily basis. But there are some who abuse their power and should be criminally responsible for an unwarranted killing of a dog.


Family Dog Fatally Shot by Police Officer - ABC News

He was still wagging his tail after being shot.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JDK View Post
What about the times when the dogs is a threat to the officer and needs to be shot?
Have you read the multiple reports in just the last month of police offers approaching a residence and fatally shooting the family dog because it was barking? This is not about prevent police from stopping an attacking dog, this about stopping police from murdering friendly family pets because they are "afraid" of dogs.

Police using lethal force as their first reaction is dangerous and wrong. If they are so afraid of dogs they can't judge when a situation DOES NOT require lethal force, they should not be carrying a gun or wearing a badge. They need to be taught how to handle the public, and includes dogs in the public. They encounter dogs every single day, they should not be pulling their gun to deal with them. I don't view this any different than a cop shooting a teenager because he yelled at the cop.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MicheleKC87 View Post
I absolutely believe that some dog shootings are warranted. And I have two uncles that are police officers, so I know the risks they take on a daily basis. But there are some who abuse their power and should be criminally responsible for an unwarranted killing of a dog.


Family Dog Fatally Shot by Police Officer - ABC News

He was still wagging his tail after being shot.

And police departments and cities need to quit protecting them when they are wrong. Saying they were justified shooting the dogs is bald faced lies, covering the butts. They need to be held responsible when they are wrong.
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Last edited by mylissyk; 06-17-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
Police officers go out every day and put their lives in jeopardy to protect us. Yes, there are some bad men who make bad decisions out there. But for the most part they are good people doing the best they can. They have to make split second decisions about situations and sometimes tragic mistakes occur. Our rights as citizens are protected by the 4th ammendment and althought statues vary by state, for the most part if the unthinkable happens you can sue the offending officer and win.

In my opinion if you are concerned, your time would be much better spent in getting a rock solid recall out of your dog and making sure your animal is safely secured.

Please read the following analysis:
VI. CONCLUSION

While the issues involved in the decision to bring a cause of action for the shooting of a pet may seem complex, they are not by any means insurmountable. There are two general steps to follow to make the determination of whether or not a cause of action exists:
1) Review the state statutes to determine if the pet is considered property subject to seizure. In addition, review any other state statutes relating to animals that may be applicable; and
2) Determine whether immunity can be defeated by addressing the policies of the municipality and the actions of the officer(s) involved.
If the pet is personal property subject to a seizure, no other state statutes defeat or authorize that seizure, and an entity or the officer involved can be held liable by defeating their immunity, a cause of action can be stated and potentially maintained successfully on behalf of the pet owner.
Although the U.S. Supreme Court has never actually decided a case based on a dog shooting, current common law follows several important Supreme Court cases with respect to the classification of property, seizures, and qualified immunity. In addition, the U.S. Supreme Court has twice refused certiorari in one case – first when the appellate court determined that the shooting of a dog was classified as a seizure and second when the appellate court later determined that the officers’ qualified immunity was defeated. While the Supreme Court may not have actually spoken on these two issues in dog shooting cases, its refusal to review the appellate court’s determinations in such a case is significant.
With a little research and diligence on the part of the litigator, a case can be made for the owners of pets who have been shot by police officers. The shooting of someone’s pet by a police officer is not an automatically acceptable practice in our courts of law.

Taken from this site: Detailed Discussion - Police Shooting Pets
How does a rock solid recall protect your dog when the police are killing dogs confined inside a fenced yard? That's happening, multiple times. The police departments called it justified because the officers were responding to a call and the dog was barking. Or when they enter your home with no cause and shoot your dog inside your home?

They've gone off the rails, and shooting family pets is not the only area.

They need to be trained to recognize a threat, or non threat. "It's just a dog", being protected by the department makes it too easy for them kill without consequence.
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Last edited by mylissyk; 06-17-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wagners Mom View Post
My brother is a police officer. And my first thought is, I wish a potentially dangerous dog was the biggest concern my brother has. After listening to his story last night at dinner, I have knots in my stomach and even more realization about just how dangerous his job is. Ugh. I am trying so hard to put it out of my mind and just pray.

My brother is also a dog lover. They have two german shephards--and he has a big heart where animals are concerned. I'll never forget, one night he called me when he was still on regular patrol. He had found a litter of pups dropped off at a school and called me to come get them. So I did--and found them homes. So for him, if he had to shoot a dog, he would feel horrible--but all I need to know is I know my brother and if he shot one, it would be justified, in my book.

I'm not saying all are justified--but police officers have so much to worry about in just trying to do their jobs. Our dogs shouldn't be one of them. I hope the unjustified ones are truly isolated incidents that are few and far between.
I would make a bet your brother would not immediately pull his gun to deal with a dog, and that's what all officers should do, think first, give the owner a chance to control the dog, or something other than kill it.

My concern with these incidents is that officers are going to the last resort FIRST.

Just because a dog barks does not mean it's going to attack. I would like officers to have enough training to be able to judge if a situation requires lethal force. Nearly all of the stories about them shooting family dogs did not require lethal force, and in my opinion showed a dangerous lack of judgement from those officers.
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Golden Retriever Rescue of North Texas
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:34 PM
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I woke up night before last to someone banging on my door at 3:00am, so I called the police. They dealt with the drunk guy banging at my door, then came and talked to us. Lily barked in a very protective way when she saw the cop. I grabbed her and sat on the couch, but that cop never reacted to Lily as if she was a danger. To think that some cops have reacted to that same behavior by shooting a dog is very disturbing.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mylissyk View Post
They've gone off the rails, and shooting family pets is not the only area.

They need to be trained to recognize a threat, nor non threat. "It's just a dog", being protected by the department makes it too easy for them kill without consequence.

I'm not sure where you are getting the comment, "It's Just A Dog." At no time did I say that. No one here did. My point from the beginning was that our dogs are covered under our 4th Ammendment rights. If an officer comes to my house for any reason and shoots my dog for laying on the porch without making a threat, then believe me, I will pursue legal action to the ends of the earth. Did you not read what I originally posted or check out the website I found it on? It cites specific cases where people have been able to sue police officers in court and win. If the evidence is there, people have won. If the evidence isn't there, 100 new laws aren't going to change anything, and it sounds like more than a few of these cases will never be cut and dry, no one will ever know for sure what really happened. It is impossible to put laws in place covering every awful scenario in life, neat and tidy, without ever having unintended consequences

I hate hearing about tragic incidents involving dogs killed in front of their families. I'm a lot more concerned that my husband's best friend, who is a Police officer, (or any of the husbands, brothers or uncles mentioned on this thread) will be hurt or killed because he hesitates one night chasing a piece of scum down the block and is too worried about the correct way to handle a snarling dog that may or may not decide to jump on him. You say you're not talking about these type scenarios, but where do you draw the line?

And for the record, yes, I do believe that if I have control of my dog he has a heck of a better chance of surviving in just about any situation. If an officer comes to my house and I behave respectfully and in a non-threatening manner, immediately and properly restraining my dog, then I am giving my dog a pretty good chance at surviving. If my dog is alone in the yard and is shot and killed by a cop in pursuit when I'm not there to protect him, it will break my heart, but I will thank God that it was not one of my children caught in crossfire or the officer shot by a criminal. I'll be sorry I lost my dog to a tragic accident, but the responsible party in my mind will be the criminal trespassing on my property, not the man (or woman) putting his own life on the line trying to protect my community.

Comparing a snarling, barking dog to a teenager who yells at a police officer is apples and oranges. I can't imagine a teenager yelling obscenities at a cop being shot, but I can imagine where it could happen if a teenager comes charging at the police officer at 20 miles an hour, object in hand, screaming "I've got a knife and I'm going to use it on you!" That's essentially what a charging, snarling dog is doing. The officer has a second to determine if it's a bluff. If he's pursuing an armed suspect or serving a warrant to someone who may be armed and dangerous, what does that kind of distraction do to his odds of making it home to his family that night?

You may think that our police force is off the rails, but I choose to live my life believing that except for a few, they are good and decent people making the best choices they can under circumstances that are almost impossible for the civilian population to truly comprehend.

Check out your state and local laws, see if some changes need to be made, but be really careful about signing your name on some blanket statement on a website put up by a group who you can't fully verify background or true intentions.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicheleKC87 View Post
I woke up night before last to someone banging on my door at 3:00am, so I called the police. They dealt with the drunk guy banging at my door, then came and talked to us. Lily barked in a very protective way when she saw the cop. I grabbed her and sat on the couch, but that cop never reacted to Lily as if she was a danger. To think that some cops have reacted to that same behavior by shooting a dog is very disturbing.
I suspect the reason the cops weren't worried about Lily was because your demeanor was not threatening and you were controlling your dog. Yes, it is disturbing to think there have been cases where it didn't happen that way, but I also suspect that it hasn't always played out EXACTLY as innocently as portrayed.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:40 PM
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I'm not sure where you are getting the comment, "It's Just A Dog." At no time did I say that. No one here did. My point from the beginning was that our dogs are covered under our 4th Ammendment rights. If an officer comes to my house for any reason and shoots my dog for laying on the porch without making a threat, then believe me, I will pursue legal action to the ends of the earth. Did you not read what I originally posted or check out the website I found it on? It cites specific cases where people have been able to sue police officers in court and win. If the evidence is there, people have won. If the evidence isn't there, 100 new laws aren't going to change anything, and it sounds like more than a few of these cases will never be cut and dry, no one will ever know for sure what really happened. It is impossible to put laws in place covering every awful scenario in life, neat and tidy, without ever having unintended consequences

I hate hearing about tragic incidents involving dogs killed in front of their families. I'm a lot more concerned that my husband's best friend, who is a Police officer, (or any of the husbands, brothers or uncles mentioned on this thread) will be hurt or killed because he hesitates one night chasing a piece of scum down the block and is too worried about the correct way to handle a snarling dog that may or may not decide to jump on him. You say you're not talking about these type scenarios, but where do you draw the line?

And for the record, yes, I do believe that if I have control of my dog he has a heck of a better chance of surviving in just about any situation. If an officer comes to my house and I behave respectfully and in a non-threatening manner, immediately and properly restraining my dog, then I am giving my dog a pretty good chance at surviving. If my dog is alone in the yard and is shot and killed by a cop in pursuit when I'm not there to protect him, it will break my heart, but I will thank God that it was not one of my children caught in crossfire or the officer shot by a criminal. I'll be sorry I lost my dog to a tragic accident, but the responsible party in my mind will be the criminal trespassing on my property, not the man (or woman) putting his own life on the line trying to protect my community.

Comparing a snarling, barking dog to a teenager who yells at a police officer is apples and oranges. I can't imagine a teenager yelling obscenities at a cop being shot, but I can imagine where it could happen if a teenager comes charging at the police officer at 20 miles an hour, object in hand, screaming "I've got a knife and I'm going to use it on you!" That's essentially what a charging, snarling dog is doing. The officer has a second to determine if it's a bluff. If he's pursuing an armed suspect or serving a warrant to someone who may be armed and dangerous, what does that kind of distraction do to his odds of making it home to his family that night?

You may think that our police force is off the rails, but I choose to live my life believing that except for a few, they are good and decent people making the best choices they can under circumstances that are almost impossible for the civilian population to truly comprehend.

Check out your state and local laws, see if some changes need to be made, but be really careful about signing your name on some blanket statement on a website put up by a group who you can't fully verify background or true intentions.
My saying "It's just a dog", had nothing to do with you or what you posted, Nolefan. It's my speculation that thought is predominant in any review a police department makes after an officer shoots a dog.

All the cases we have read about lately have been ruled "justified" because the officers feared for their safety, by the police department after their "review". A dog barks and a grown man, a police officer fears for his safety?

You can try to take it to court, but there is no court that will rule against the officer if the police department rules it justified.

I did not sign any petition, actually that website didn't even open the petition so it was a mute point, but I would NOT have signed it in any case. Petitions are pointless and do nothing to change situations like this.

My point is there needs to be a culture change in the police force, lethal force should never be the FIRST resort when they encounter a family dog. It is happening too often, and it is happening with more frequency because the officers are being supported and protected when they make that decision to shoot a pet dog in their own home. And it causes me to seriously question the ability of those officers to accurately judge when a situation requires lethal force or not.
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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Mahatma Gandhi

Golden Retriever Rescue of North Texas
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:54 PM
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Yeah, most of your posts really bother me.

"My husband/brother/dad is a police officer! They love dogs! Their safety is more important to me!"

That may be so. I too have good friends who are police officers However, many police out there are trigger happy jerks.

When is the last time a cop has been killed by a dog? Especially a golden retriever? When Or even worse, I've read other recent stories where a female police officer killed a 15 pound dog. Yes, it might bite your ankle... is that worth taking the life of somebody's child? Because I guess unlike most of you, thats how I feel about my dog. If someone came on my property and killed Louie for loudly greeting them, I would consider that the same as killing my child, and would react in the same fashion.

Bottom line, cops, like others, view dogs as just animals and property, and if its easy to dispose of the property to continue the mission, they will.

Animal control officers take care of violent animals ALL THE TIME without having to KILL. These police officers, who are supposed to protect and defend us (and not trample our rights) can't do the same thing? Dont they have BATONS they can use if the dog really is attacking? And you people defend them?
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