Ethical issues? Please give opinions: Breeder wants a certain food for one year. A "link" is provided by breeder so that one can go to website, register, and purchase food via an account. Food seems to agree with puppy and food is happily purchased via the registered account. Fast forward a couple months and breeder begins asking via texts and emails if puppy is being fed the food as stated in contract. Breeder is told yes, the puppy is being fed the food. The emails become a little more persistent and it is stated that the breeder can see my account, and food has not been purchased recently. I explain I still have food and will order as soon as I need food. Now, I begin questioning myself why the immense interest in the food. There has been no similar interest (texts/emails) in questioning about potty training, sleeping at night, crate training, biting and all the usual new puppy issues. I get on internet and find out that the food is sold via the website and if you are purchasing food through the "link" provided that person receives compensation for your purchase (have no idea how much compensation). My problem: I was never told about the compensation. This breeder would continue to make money off this puppy for at least one year. In addition this food can be purchased via another source where the breeder doe not receive compensation but I was not told that there may be alternate sources to purchase the food. I just happily assumed that this was a food only available to breeders and never thought about compensation back to the breeder. Given the level of breeder interest (text/emails) about the food compared to all the other issues a breeder could be asking about I have drawn my own conclusions. I am now purchasing the food through an alternate source because I have a problem with compensation for using a food that is part of a contract. Opinions?
Yes, that is super bizarre. What would she do if the puppy didn't continually thrive of the said food? We went through several foods before we found one that worked for our girl. Odd.
Definitely sounds like a conflict of interest to me. Does your breeder offer a health guarantee that is conditional on using that food? If so, you might want to keep your receipts to prove you purchased and used the food in case the health guarantee comes into play.
No health guarantee based on the food. I have now purchased and sent pictures of the receipts from my other source. Problem is now that I have little/no trust in this breeder. And if the breeder would have been upfront with me on the food compensation and said something like: "I do receive compensation for the purchase of food but you might also be able to purchase the food elsewhere" I would have been fine with it. However, no disclosure was given.
what if before the year the dog don't like the food? Idk why breeders do that.. you cant dictate what to do with a puppy after puppy is purchased... I mean it sounds like you have your puppy leased or something. like she cares more about her making money off the puppy. she probably don't care if the food is good for the dogs ..... Before I go Milo I had a breeder saying she had to see the dog I was going to breed the puppy with if I was planning in breeding. like I understand you want to keep the bloodline but to me is dictating what to do with the dog that is now mine and that I purchased. I didn't get my dog from her though!
I would keep buying the food from a different source.
what if before the year the dog don't like the food? Idk why breeders do that.. you cant dictate what to do with a puppy after puppy is purchased... I mean it sounds like you have your puppy leased or something. like she cares more about her making money off the puppy. she probably don't care if the food is good for the dogs ..... Before I go Milo I had a breeder saying she had to see the dog I was going to breed the puppy with if I was planning in breeding. like I understand you want to keep the bloodline but to me is dictating what to do with the dog that is now mine and that I purchased. I didn't get my dog from her though!
Absolutely I will keep buying the food from a different source.
The food does cost more to purchase through an alternate source but there is no way I will allow this breeder to be continually be compensated through the sale of the puppy via demanding a certain food be used. Happy to buy the food; just not through the breeder "link".
So some breeders will do this. Its not the norm, but not rare either (if that makes sense?). Its sort of a conflict of interest in my opinion, and working with a breeder who would force me to use something that might not agree with my dog doesn't sit well with me. Sometimes breeders have passionate views about dog food, and they might not want to send their puppies out to owners that will feed a crap food. On a personal, good human level, yeah, she probably should have mentioned the compensation she gets...but she's not forced to. Breeders will also peddle vitamins this way (NuVet is a classic example).
I had a dog with severe food intolerances and IBD, and after that experience and knowing how the right diet can take some work, I personally would not choose a breeder who required a certain brand of food, regardless of compensation. Especially if there wasn't a plan stated for what to do if the food didn't work out.
I am also not a fan of breeders who use this kick back practice through NuVet, Life's Abundance and the like. I personally would not buy from someone who requires any specific food as dogs are individual and what works for one may not for another.
For what it is worth, it is not about the products themselves as they seem to be okay.
I would read your contract to see how it is worded. A lot will have a penalty of some sort for non-compliance. To me personally I am a person of my word so, if I signed it, I do it. I see it as if I had a problem with it I should have not signed it and taken the puppy. If the contract requires the food but fails to specify that you have to use the link, I think you are good. If it specifies that you do use the link then it is up to you to decide if their ethics or your own are more important.
I am also not a fan of breeders who use this kick back practice through NuVet, Life's Abundance and the like. I personally would not buy from someone who requires any specific food as dogs are individual and what works for one may not for another.
For what it is worth, it is not about the products themselves as they seem to be okay.
I would read your contract to see how it is worded. A lot will have a penalty of some sort for non-compliance. To me personally I am a person of my word so, if I signed it, I do it. I see it as if I had a problem with it I should have not signed it and taken the puppy. If the contract requires the food but fails to specify that you have to use the link, I think you are good. If it specifies that you do use the link then it is up to you to decide if their ethics or your own are more important.
Yes, nothing about using the link so I am using alternate source for purchase. The pup is doing fine on the food, so no need to consider a change. It's the lack of disclosure that I find disconcerting.
I use LA food. I always ask puppy people to buy a first bag so the pup doesn't have to adjust to a new food as well as new life... fwiw the company gives me $6.71 (I think- if I am off by a few cents it is close to that) and I do not care if folks keep buying it or not, most do stay with it, I think, since it is a fabulous food- and I honestly have no idea if I keep making $$ or not from subsequent buys (I have to have the replicator site which is the link like you were given to purchase through in order to buy my own food at the discount I get- which is the real reason I keep that replicator site) since I have any money auto deposited in an account I do not visit very often...the last time I balanced that account I want to say I got about $30 a month. That's not so much for a commission or whatever it is- so for so little, I can't imagine trying to force people to buy it. Or maybe I am just at such a low level of commission that I don't make the bucks others do.
that said, I do tell puppy people I get the $6.71 for that first bag's buy and do tell them to do their own research and use whatever they are most comfortable using because it feels somewhat wrong to me to make money off a food I am recommending. OTOH, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't find it to be a superior food. I also happen to like Mes Amis leashes so while I send a slip home w every puppy, I offer to buy puppy people leash/collar combos at my wholesale cost and I do the same for many other products I get at a discount. And I've had folks use Amazon to purchase the food through, though it's my understanding that they pay about 15% more if they buy it that way- so if one wanted to ponder on that, it'd be getting a discount to buy through the breeder. It's that the breeder gets some amount of money and didn't tell you so that is bothersome.
The company suggests that breeders include food in the contract when selling a pup- I don't do that- I specify % fat/protein and no brand name. It feels wrong to me too to not tell people you're making a commission on something you've suggested they buy.
I use LA food. I always ask puppy people to buy a first bag so the pup doesn't have to adjust to a new food as well as new life... fwiw the company gives me $6.71 (I think- if I am off by a few cents it is close to that) and I do not care if folks keep buying it or not, most do stay with it, I think, since it is a fabulous food- and I honestly have no idea if I keep making $$ or not from subsequent buys (I have to have the replicator site which is the link like you were given to purchase through in order to buy my own food at the discount I get- which is the real reason I keep that replicator site) since I have any money auto deposited in an account I do not visit very often...the last time I balanced that account I want to say I got about $30 a month. That's not so much for a commission or whatever it is- so for so little, I can't imagine trying to force people to buy it. Or maybe I am just at such a low level of commission that I don't make the bucks others do.
that said, I do tell puppy people I get the $6.71 for that first bag's buy and do tell them to do their own research and use whatever they are most comfortable using because it feels somewhat wrong to me to make money off a food I am recommending. OTOH, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't find it to be a superior food. I also happen to like Mes Amis leashes so while I send a slip home w every puppy, I offer to buy puppy people leash/collar combos at my wholesale cost and I do the same for many other products I get at a discount. And I've had folks use Amazon to purchase the food through, though it's my understanding that they pay about 15% more if they buy it that way- so if one wanted to ponder on that, it'd be getting a discount to buy through the breeder. It's that the breeder gets some amount of money and didn't tell you so that is bothersome.
The company suggests that breeders include food in the contract when selling a pup- I don't do that- I specify % fat/protein and no brand name. It feels wrong to me too to not tell people you're making a commission on something you've suggested they buy.
Since this has been moved to the breeder forum I would like to say I appreciate all work the reputable breeders do.
I like the food in question thus far. However, I will not hesitate to change the food if my pup's health warrants it.
My displeasure stems from nondisclosure of compensation.
My displeasure also stems from being led to believe that the food was only available through the breeder link and therefore not available elsewhere. I should have be given this information and been able to choose where I purchase the required food. I choose where my money is spent; not the breeder.
This is the wave of the future, and so far I have resisted it - Puppy Culture to Nuvet. I don't want to be associated with a particular product, so I choose to forego those kind of soft sales/ advertisng but see it more and more.
If there is no legal penalty for NOT going through the breeder link, then I'd continue purchasing the food from wherever I can get it (if it's cheaper elsewhere, then that's where I'd get it). If there are legal ramifications if I didn't feed the food, then I'd send copies of the receipts to the breeder as proof that you are complying with the contract.
The breeder for our last Golden stipulated in our contract that we had to give a specific amount of Vitamin C to the dog per day or she would not honor the pup's health guarantee. We first checked with our vet (who has Goldens herself) who said that the amount of daily Vit. C was fine. Had our vet indicated that the dosage was too high and might have an adverse impact on the pup's health, we would have asked to have that portion of the contract removed or we would not have purchased the pup from her.
Bizarre and well, a bit brazen with making more money off you. If the puppy is doing well on this particular food, I see no reason to not continue it for the full year. I would however check if there was any place I could buy the food cheaper. Unless of course, it's stated in the contract that you also have to buy that food only from that website. If it was, I'd go back to her and question that part. After all, the whole point is the food, not the store where you are buying from, as this is about the welfare of the pup. It's expensive enough to take care of a dog, what with costs for vet, food, training, and other dog items for in the house all put together.
Sounds like your breeder is wanting a share of the profit on the food you buy. This is done by buying Life's Abundance through a link they provide. The breeder we got our dog from, whom I wouldn't recommend if my life depended on it, gives her dogs a 26 month guarantee ONLY IF you feed your dog food purchased through her link. My dog developed epilepsy at 15 months, then I found out the breeder knew (before we purchased our family member) of other dogs she'd bred were also suffering with epilepsy. I wouldn't take any recommendations from a breeder who is obviously money driven.
Sounds like your breeder is wanting a share of the profit on the food you buy. This is done by buying Life's Abundance through a link they provide. The breeder we got our dog from, whom I wouldn't recommend if my life depended on it, gives her dogs a 26 month guarantee ONLY IF you feed your dog food purchased through her link. My dog developed epilepsy at 15 months, then I found out the breeder knew (before we purchased our family member) of other dogs she'd bred were also suffering with epilepsy. I wouldn't take any recommendations from a breeder who is obviously money driven.
I can understand your concern and frustration about the Breeder's non-disclosure of their financial incentive. As long as the recommended food is a quality dog food that you are otherwise comfortable with, would make it a non-issue for me, especially when the internet link they provided gets you a discounted price on the food (if I'm understanding that correctly).
Sorry to tease you but I am equally concerned about YOUR non-disclosure, in that you have not mentioned the Breeder's name or the name of the dog food ? I think the whole purpose of this forum is sharing information, so .....
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My displeasure stems from nondisclosure of compensation.
[/QUOTE said:
I 100 percent agree with this. That stinks.
My dog training business has a large social media reach, so several times I have been asked to link these sometimes even good quality productss and have refused bc it IS total nondisclosure to our clients that something is being sold by us. I do think it is the way businesses are moving to sell things- the personal network feel & passive income for having a certain number of views, looks, likes, or friends- but I am not doing when it feels sneaky. Amazon kind of does it to us already.
My contract says a puppy food that fits X guidelines for the health guarantee to be valid - it would be a conflict of interest for me to make money off a specific recommendation. I also have a problem with stating a certain brand *must* be fed. There's plenty of options out there that are all good foods.
Bayleigh was a beautiful and loved girl. I always smile when I see the picture of her smiling face. You know she was beautiful inside and out Lisa pay that poster no mind.
Same as a doctor prescribing drugs that they get a kickback on. Same as my wedding photographer who contractually "required" us to buy a set dollar amount of prints from him. I doubt if any of these are legally binding but who knows? If you like the food and the price is the same via this link, your only real reason for not using it is to spite this breeder, who's simply trying to make a buck. Last I looked we aren't a communist country here. Making a buck is perfectly legal. Remember using film in your camera? To Kodak, it was the gift that kept on giving, because people spent more on prints than they did on film. Cell phones companies too, nowadays, sell you the phone for cheap and lock you into a contract where their real profit is made. Restaurants stay in business NOT on selling food, but on selling drinks. If you order water when you eat out, you'll soon have to choose another restaurant b/c your favorite, with the free water, has gone under.
I don't understand people denying a person the means to stay in a business or make a few extra bucks. If you liked this breeder well enough to buy a pup from her, and this food's good and fairly priced...
Same as a doctor prescribing drugs that they get a kickback on. Same as my wedding photographer who contractually "required" us to buy a set dollar amount of prints from him. I doubt if any of these are legally binding but who knows? If you like the food and the price is the same via this link, your only real reason for not using it is to spite this breeder, who's simply trying to make a buck. Last I looked we aren't a communist country here. Making a buck is perfectly legal. Remember using film in your camera? To Kodak, it was the gift that kept on giving, because people spent more on prints than they did on film. Cell phones companies too, nowadays, sell you the phone for cheap and lock you into a contract where their real profit is made. Restaurants stay in business NOT on selling food, but on selling drinks. If you order water when you eat out, you'll soon have to choose another restaurant b/c your favorite, with the free water, has gone under.
I don't understand people denying a person the means to stay in a business or make a few extra bucks. If you liked this breeder well enough to buy a pup from her, and this food's good and fairly priced...
I respectfully think you have missed my point. It is the non-disclosure of compensation for a food that is required for one year, providing the link for the purchase of food, and also not disclosing that the food can be bought from other sources. As stated before, I get to choose where I spend my money, not the breeder.
I have read that many that put a special food in the contract also insist that the owner purchase through them.
I am not a lawyer and don't know anything about contract law but it doesn't seem like the breeder has to disclose anything in the contract to the buyer. The contract is to protect the breeder and pup from the new owner. It is up to the buyer to ask the right questions and get the answers to make an informed decision. It really is a buyer beware when purchasing a pup.
If the breeder had told me I have to use a certain food AND buy it from her, I would have immediately walked away. Talk about kickback for a year based on a litter of pups.
While I do think that the breeder should have told you she is paid a commission on food sales through her link, I hope that the food is not chosen by the breeder because there is a commission paid. Personally, I went through several brands before I hit on LA and I would use it - and would tell puppy people to buy at least a first bag of it- whether I got paid or not. It's a quality product and I think for many breeders (or at least the ones I know) who use it, it is not so much a real income stream but instead is a way to get their own food at a significant discount.
A contract should be written not to preserve a steady income but to preserve the health of the puppy that I would hope everyone loves. I think a contract should protect the buyer, the seller and the puppy. How the puppy IS protected, to what extent, and by what products, is the breeder's call- the breeder is the expert (hopefully). Having at hand a breeder's knowledge is a big piece of why people go with breeders who are such good resources and who certainly have lots of experience. And if it is the food the puppy was weaned to, why not choose to use it, since it is one of the better foods as long as it benefits the puppy. As to use of the breeder's link, the buyer who uses it gets the food cheaper than they would through Amazon, correct? so the take away here is that the breeder should have just been upfront about it- of course, when someone gives me a link to use I assume they are getting points or something from it.
We do not know if this breeder is a 'good' breeder, if they truly make a ton of money on the food, or if they use it because it is an excellent food- we don't know. I hate to see hating on someone when in all actuality, the breeder COULD be like me and honestly not even know how much they make from the food. For all we know, the breeder could just as easily be trying to feed their dogs the best they can and this is how they do that. They could be bad guys, too, and have a real racket going because they crank out 20 puppies a month- we don't know. Perhaps the OP can tell us if this is a good breeder or a bad breeder if we're going to keep dragging this one out- so we have context. You got asked who it was about 3 pages ago, I understand if you don't want to say- but do tell about the pedigree/clearances/why you chose the breeder- and what else went sour, because just over this feels like it's not all.
Wow. I absolutely would never buy a puppy from that person. Any breeder who tries to control puppy buyers like that would be a huge red flag for me. A reputable breeder will not have any problem allowing you to decide what food works best for your puppy as well as your budget. They may ask that you at least keep them on the food that they have been feeding them at least while they adjust to their new home, but after that, they will not care what food you decide to transition your pup to, just as long as it agrees with them. They may recommend certain foods that they have had good experiences with, but they should never force anything on you. In my opinion, she is really crossing the line by pestering you the way that she is. If it were me, I would stop responding to her. You have already told her that you are using the food, so no other response is needed.
Thank you for all the responses to this thread. Hopefully it has given us all food for thought (no pun intended lol).
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