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Another attack on puppy... This time I got involved.

4K views 32 replies 25 participants last post by  sunlovesun 
#1 ·
Ok, so my boy got into some trouble about 2 months ago, when we were passing two bulldogs in our local nature walk and one of them became aggressive toward him. After about 10 seconds both bulldogs went into a complete frenzy and began attacking him, managed to bite him once on his behind and were going for more, growling, lunging and baring teeth and running at me. I was forced to pick him up to prevent them getting at him, and the owner was whipping them with their leather leashes to try and get them to stop. Obviously to no avail, but that was then.

For some reason, my beautiful boy is being subject to these horrible dogs and their even HORRIBLER owners. Today was another story.

Let me begin...

We were walking together (me and Caesar), through the nature park (its just fields and woodland where people go to walk or take their dogs, NOT a dog park), and everything was great. There was this dog, it looked young to me, and the owners said he was 13 months. It was a Fox Terrier. It was on a leash and lunging at Caesar. I thought to myself 'Oh, probably a first-time dog owner who hasn't taught his dog any leash manners'. I was right. I just smiled and thought that I might as well allow them to meet. So the dog met mine and they sniffed and whatever. I started talking to the owners and they were pleasant people. It was their first time walking here, so I was just telling them about it and how nice normally it is, etc.

We walked together for about 5 minutes, just for the dogs to enjoy company. Their dog was on a leash this whole time, mine was off leash the whole time. My boy is 5 months but very good. After some minutes, the owner let his dog off the leash. As soon as he did, the dog ran ahead immediately, going to sniff, play, see things, whatever. I think they are herding dogs by nature so he was just doing his thing. Went to sniff the river bank or whatever.

After some more minutes, their dog came back, and we were all walking nicely. My boy is lovely and very sociable, and I don't even remember what happened, but I think he perhaps wanted to initiate play with this other dog. Everything was alright... for most of 2 seconds. Almost immediately, this Fox Terrier was growling and lunging at Caesar, teeth bared, and was literally... I don't even know, he started mounting on Caesar, while trying to dig his teeth into him at the same time, and all the while Caesar was just crying... you know that rapid whining/crying sound that pups make when they're in distress. I was just watching from about 5 meters away, thinking, 'Oh, the dog will get off mine when he realizes mine is whining'. Caesar sometimes whines when he plays with other dogs if they are too rough but they stop after a second. BUT NOT THIS DOG. He dug his teeth MORE into mine, trying to get at his neck, he was standing on top of him, pinning him down and shaking him about. After maybe 5 or 6 seconds I realized it wasn't stopping so I quickly moved over to the disgust that was this dog. His owner was 'trying' to get him off, grabbed him by the collar but that was it. WOOHOO... I on the other hand, CHARGED over to that dog, GRABBED it by the collar, and PULLED it completely off and away from my dog, while telling it VERY strongly 'HEY' a number of times. The owner was just looking at me as if I was assaulting his dog and hurting it. Oh my god you should have seen his face. He really didn't know how to reprimand the dog. The man's partner was telling the dog off, while the man was clearly petting the dog, telling him 'there there bilbo it's alright, lovely bilbo don't be naughty it's fine bilbo good boy'.

I was shocked.

I think my boy has a small patch under his eye where his fur is no longer there, I don't know if this hideous dog ripped some skin off or dug his tooth there or something. Unbelievable. The worst part is that the owner was trying to tell me it was just play and was effectively telling the dog it was a good boy by petting it and kissing it afterward. Oh my god. My boy ran about 20 meters away and just sat there staring over. I had two options. Either be nice, and grab my boy away from underneath this dog's legs, or grab the dog off mine.

I'm NOT going to take any slack from ANYONE anymore. If their dog so much as looks at mine wrong, I'm going to be WAITING to reprimand it if it even so much as LUNGES toward my dog.

Why can't everyone own a Golden Retriever? Why do people own these crusty breeds and then never socialize them properly OR learn to train them properly?

It really boils my blood.

If you want updated pictures of my baby boy... I have an album

Grim stuff. I'm angry.
 

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#2 ·
I just seems like so many owners are clueless about their own dog, they don't know them at all, and they are not prepared or even understand they need to control their behaviour.

Next time you meet strange dogs on a walk, just keep walking. Don't stop and think, "oh lets let them meet". Just say hi and continue walking with your happy, well behaved puppy. Don't hang around and give a strange dog the opportunity to attack your puppy.

If this keeps happening, he may learn to be defensive when meeting new dogs, he may even go on the offensive and strike first if he keeps getting beat up. He is at an impressionable age, and you want his impressions to be positive.

Have play dates with friends dogs that you know are stable, happy, and social and will give your puppy a positive experience.

Too many strangers don't know how to control their dogs, it just isn't wort the risk to let them mingle with your puppy and have this happen.
 
#4 ·
If this keeps happening, he may learn to be defensive when meeting new dogs, he may even go on the offensive and strike first if he keeps getting beat up. He is at an impressionable age, and you want his impressions to be positive.

Have play dates with friends dogs that you know are stable, happy, and social and will give your puppy a positive experience. .
I have had this with Jack & a Doberman down the road from us & your right the dog attacked Jack as a puppy(Jack onleash the dobie was not) About a year later Jack was up to 70lbs & the Dobie went after him again when the dog came after Jack this time it was a bit differant he attacked so fast I lost his leash & before I could stop himm he had the Dobise pinned & was bitting. The owner came up screaming & I explaned my dog was on a leash & yours attacked. Not the behavor I want out of my dogs & Jack & I have worked thru it but has taken awhile to get rid of that problem. Good reply mylissyk
 
#5 ·
Sorry you had to deal with all this, and I have worked hard on my own dogs. Rusty my golden, I trust 100% he will behave and not cause issues with other dogs to play with.

On the other hand. My Brittany is a sweet heart and loves to play too...but there are times where the other dog must "rub" her the wrong way. And she will bark and get upset at them (even snaps if they get too close...but never attacks tho). I am always on guard with her, when I meet new people and their dogs.

With Rusty, I had him at 8 weeks old and he was socialize once I got him...and he is awesome. Kerrie Ann my Brittany, I got from her breeder at 8 months old and she was never socialized as a young pup. The breeder wanted her for show, but Kerrie Ann would not have anything to do with the show ring.

I have worked HARD on Kerrie's socializing, and she is 100 times better....but I know she needs to be watched at first (well all the time with any dog really). I'm not sure what it is, but I wish I had Kerrie at 8 weeks old.

It would be a make a huge difference today I'm sure. She is still a sweet heart, but kinda of fearful with new people and dogs she meets.
 
#6 ·
I'm sorry this happened to your boy. After owning dogs for several decades I've learned just how clueless many owners are and there are very few dogs I will allow my dog to socialize with if we see one another out walking. Most are Golden Retrievers, though there are two that I won't allow near mine since they are aggressive. Our trainer has a philosophy that you need to check out the owners first and the dog and you have the right to say "not today" or "we have a no greet policy while we are out training/walking (or whatever you want to say)" if you feel something is off with either of them. If you decide to allow the dogs to greet, she suggests a 3 second rule where both dogs are on leash, allowed to sniff then you back them each up and say OK good boy and you walk away. I've told people that we practice a 3 second greeting and I need them to back their dog off after the 3 second greeting is up- and I count it off in a happy sort of voice- 1-2-3, OK, good boy as we back up. It works pretty well and after a few greetings (on different occasions) like this you have a pretty good idea if the dogs will be OK with one another for a longer time. Sometimes one dog is a little overly excited and I usually cut an extended visit short since we are primarily out for walking, not playing on a leash.

If I see an owner approaching with a flexi lead, I either turn around and go a different direction if I can or cross the street as fast as I can- generally the flexi lead users around here are totally clueless and I just don't want to deal with them. I also cross or change direction when I see a small child carrying a leash- I don't want to see the dog get loose from the child and attack my dogs- I just don't want to traumatize the child if I end up physically defending my animals.
 
#7 ·
A fox terrier is a ratter by breed, not a herding dog. They are tough little dogs. I'm sorry this has happened to you not once, but twice. I would think that is enough to change how you look at things. Not all dogs are friendly. Not all owners are intelligent. If you are going to let your puppy off leash he may continue to become a victim. It is your responsibility to protect him. As soon as you see another dog, leash your puppy and keep him on the side away from the other dog and continue walking. You may give a greeting, but keep moving. Once you are in the clear and if the other dog is out of sight you may consider letting your guy off leash again. Getting attacked over and over again is going to have some impact on him and you don't want that because he is a sweet guy. You are also setting him up for a bad injury and you for expensive vet bills. You may want to change where you walk, but if not I have no problem with telling other owners on a walk to leash their dogs if they approach us. Tell them your dog isn't friendly if you must. I've done that. We are suburban and not rural so we are always on leash. Some people don't follow the rules. I've had issues and try my best to keep mine safe. Both of mine love other dogs, but on walks that's not allowed. It's bad enough when you encounter stray dogs and that is an issue for another day. Hope your guy feels better soon and he has no issues from this.
 
#10 ·
A fox terrier is a ratter by breed, not a herding dog. They are tough little dogs. I'm sorry this has happened to you not once, but twice. I would think that is enough to change how you look at things. Not all dogs are friendly. Not all owners are intelligent. If you are going to let your puppy off leash he may continue to become a victim. It is your responsibility to protect him. As soon as you see another dog, leash your puppy and keep him on the side away from the other dog and continue walking. You may give a greeting, but keep moving. Once you are in the clear and if the other dog is out of sight you may consider letting your guy off leash again. Getting attacked over and over again is going to have some impact on him and you don't want that because he is a sweet guy. You are also setting him up for a bad injury and you for expensive vet bills. You may want to change where you walk, but if not I have no problem with telling other owners on a walk to leash their dogs if they approach us. Tell them your dog isn't friendly if you must. I've done that. We are suburban and not rural so we are always on leash. Some people don't follow the rules. I've had issues and try my best to keep mine safe. Both of mine love other dogs, but on walks that's not allowed. It's bad enough when you encounter stray dogs and that is an issue for another day. Hope your guy feels better soon and he has no issues from this.
Very good feedback and pointers. I agree 100% with you that the pup should not be off leash. It's just too risky and I don't trust other people's dogs
 
#8 ·
I so agree with Tayla's mom. The best way to protect Caesar is to keep him on leash and not do intros with strange dogs. There are no intros while mine are out with me. They are also always on leash so I at least can keep hold of my own dog if there is a problem. I would also start carrying a spray of some type. You can't control other people or their dog so the best you can do is protect your own.
 
#9 ·
I walk Tucker almost every day and it amazes me how many clueless owners are out there. We have so many dogs run out in the road to get to him and I have to tell the owners to get their dog because they just stand there! And then I tell them that we do have a leash law. It's hard to enjoy the walk when you are on constant alert.
 
#11 ·
I never walk my Golden's off leash, unless we are in an area where no other dogs are present (like duck hunting). When I walk my dog, I have a walking stick that is about 5' foot tall, made of Hickory. Any dog or animal for that matter, that approach's us, is quickly confronted with my stick pointing at their face. If they choose to come in, they would get a poke in the face, followed by a rap on the head! None have yet decided to come into our space, somehow they know what I am thinking??!!!

Point here is always have control and the ability to maintain control when walking the dog! Dogs do not need playmates, dog friends, or to smell other dogs, we are their pack!
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the pointers guys. I have to say that from now on I'll definitely be more on my guard about who my pup meets.

Just one question about the leash... As a given, he's on leash around the neighborhood and around areas where there are cars, other dangers or generally what I perceive to be dangerous dogs (obviously some excuses here as I didn't have control soon enough), but do you guys generally keep your dogs on leash even when you are walking in woodland or other vast walking areas? It sounds kind of alien to me, because probably 99+% of dogs where we walk are off leash and this seems normal to me? I'm just curious as to when your dogs get the chance to be off leash because it sounds like a lot of you keep your dogs on leash even when walking? I live in rural areas and always walk in these nature grounds by our house, that are near a farm. It's like rolling meadows, fields, some woodland and a river that runs through the whole place. it's about 300 acres of land I think, far from roads, so I'm wondering - is that a place that he should be kept on leash then? It just doesn't seem right :eek: or maybe its just the culture here or something...

Where we walk it has mainly become an area that is used by lots of local dog owners, so we do see a fair number in a day there. It's just a shame that while most are pleasant for him to be around, there are those dogs who are just so out of control. Usually when I see this, its due to the owner's mismanagement. :(

Thanks for educating me guys, first time owning a big breed dog.
 
#17 ·
It sounds like a great place for off leash romping and exploring. If you are going to let him off leash, you need to train him to move on past other dogs, and not stop to visit. You keep walking on, he keeps walking on with you. He's really young, and that will take a lot of time and maturity for him to master. In the meantime, keep the leash handy and leash him up when you see other dogs/people, so you can control what he does.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I can only tell you my personal policy...I live on 30+ acres of wood and shore and am surrounded by probably 150+ acres of the same. I know every dog owner in my area and they know me and they know my dogs.

When we're out walking, my dogs are on leash. Always. First, it's the law where I live. Second, we have a large porcupine and skunk population. Third, I've known too many really great dogs from when I worked as an LVT and as a shelter volunteer who died from being offleash at just the wrong moment.

Again, this is just my viewpoint and just my response to my own situation. We all have to make our own best judgments about what's best for our dogs. But if your walking area has become populated with aggressive dogs who aren't under control, it's a risk for your dog to be out there. It's not fair, it's not right, but I would keep my dog on a leash and have some pepper spray on hand and avoid all other dogs you don't know, if your goal is to be as safe as possible. The reality is that you can't control the behavior of anyone's dog (or human!) other than your own, right?
 
#14 ·
If you want to understand clueless, be a veterinarian or anyone who works with untrained, undisciplined dogs.
 
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#15 ·
We spend time in the summer in a place that has large conservation areas where the norm is to have dogs off leash. Over the years I've actually been surprised at how well most of the dogs get on with one another. I would think that most people with an unpredictable or aggressive dog stay away from these places but there are some who haven't seemed to get that message. I haven't let Gracie off leash there until I felt comfortable that she would respond to my recall. It's an area where you can keep an eye on who is approaching in the distance. If I'm not familiar with them or the dog, I leash up just to be safe. In my experience the most problematic dogs are often terriers or mixes that seem to have terrier and GSD in them, although we had an unpleasant encounter with a 4 yr. old female Golden a few weeks ago, most unGolden like temperament I've ever seen.
 
#16 ·
As a bird hunter I commonly take my dogs out in the field. I will take them off of lead when I release them to hunt. They are trained to return on whistle command and where e collars, for which they are also trained. They will not go beyond me more than 40-50 Yds. As that is the kill range of my shotgun. So they hunt back and forth at 40-50 yds. If I command here, the return to my side. If I leave the hunt, I call them in and put them on lead.

What I am always doing is trying to avoid exposure to any unexpected events that may hurt them. Snakes, rabid animals, deep sudden ravines, etc.

To answer your question I use the lead and the e collar at all times!
 
#18 ·
Fox terrier. That could have been your first two words and I could have written the rest of the story for you
 
#19 ·
haha... I'll be avoiding them from now on.



Thanks for the input everyone, I'll be particularly more vigilant about who I let him meet going forward, if anyone, unless I know them. I'm learning that there are just so many irresponsible dog owners out there who don't even know their own dog's behavior, it's really wild. I think I'm going to try teach him to be more aloof to other dogs.
 
#20 ·
My own dogs would be on lead at any time where they might run into another dog. I do believe that your pup is too young to be off lead. He will be going through an adolescence period where he is likely to totally ignore you when you are calling him. To me it's not worth the risk. I live by the philosophy that every dog listens until the first time they don't. That first time could end in tragedy.
 
#21 ·
Sorry to hear of your bad experience(s). This is a topic close to my heart and makes me angry!

My boo was attacked when he was 5 months old, the lab/rot cross was attacking to kill and should have been muzzled. Boo needed stitches and weeks to recover fully. Thankfully it hasn't done any lasting damage as he is still happy go lucky and wants to be everyone's friend. Since then though he has been "attacked" many times, I say attacked but no blood was drawn this time but the dog would go for him and bite. This is usually completely unprovoked and the times that it could be perceived as being provoked is when boo is too enthusiastic or trying to hump. Most people say it's the first time their dog did it or that he doesn't mean any harm and to let them sort it out. I don't like this at all and I am becoming a nervous walker. I don't know about keeping him on the leash, my bad attack happened when he was on leash, on he leash they cannot run away from attacking dog. It's other people who need to keep their dog on he leash not us in my opinion. The other dog will still attack if the dog is on he leash. I get dogs approaching us with no owner in sight, this makes me so nervous. One the other day was running around And had clearly escaped from somewhere and was growling at us, I saw him a few days later with the owner and told him and his response was on yeah he does that sonetines, he never did any harm before so it's ok. So irresponsible. The dog was running on the road, could cause a car accident! Anyway my point is I share your pain, most people here think I am a wuss and my dog will sense I am nervous, I don't know what else to do, just stay on guard and keep an eye on the situation I guess
 
#22 ·
My Golden Maiya was attacked by an off leash Pittie while on a tie out in my yard to go pottie. My leashed and standing in a heel position Doberman was attacked by an off leash Golden while hiking. The Golden was a hell of a lot harder to pull off than the Pitt. Needless to say no breed gets a free pass from me. Anyone coming towards me with a dog is yelled at to leash their dog and keep it away. And any dog, supposedly friendly or not that I don't know well, will get told off, the boot, etc. if it gets within range when it is obviously not under control of its owner.
 
#23 ·
I always have my dogs on leash when going for walks. If I want them to have a bit more freedom I use a flexi leash. I do know how to use one and train with one for distance work.. I have a very strong recall for Titan and Mighty is still a work in progress.. he gets his nose down and his hearing suddenly goes away. I would not take chances with either one. When strangers say they want their dog to meet mine I lie and say they don't like other dogs. I hate it when strangers do that. My dogs are well socialized and don't need it.
 
#24 ·
At 5mths old, he's thinking every dog is friendly and would make a good playmate. Sadly that is not the case so I too would keep him on leash unless I knew the other dogs well. Mine got lots of time off leash when they were reliable on recall. I don't recall it being much on trails at 5mths old, unless it was so early no one else was out or miserable weather so everyone sane stayed indoors.

Better safe than sorry would be my two cents.
 
#25 ·
Shame on people. Our pup was attached in a dog park when he was 6 months old. I sure learned a lesson. Thought all dogs in the dog park were friendly. Stupid me. I never forgave myself. The owners just sat there and said something about..It always happens at the gate....My husband finally kicked the poop out of one of them....there were two. I was crushed and mad at myself for sure. I thought he needed to be socialized. A hard lesson learned.
 
#26 ·
Many dogs, even the best ones, get funny/territorial, aggressive, etc, when meeting lead on lead. When I walk my two I walk at brisk pace and continue to walk past anyone walking our way with their dogs on lead.

My boys are friendly, but I just do not trust all other dogs and most owners or the on leash dynamic. Additionally, so many people are afraid of dogs, or dislike dogs, that I always put them on leads when we see anyone nearby.

Olliver also has a fabulous recall, Tyson the adoptee does not yet. So they are on lead in open areas when I take them walking together.

We are very fortunate to have 4 fenced acres where they can run off lead to their hearts content. In the past I have not and understand the frustration of not being allowed to let them go.

Hope your pup is ok.
 
#27 ·
When I walk Rain around the neighborhood, she is always on a leash. But there is a trail near my house behind our local community college and ALL dogs are off leash. If I have Rain on a leash, the other owners always ask if she is in trouble. I walk her there off leash with no issues. Everyone and their dogs are very friendly, even people without dogs enjoy the dogs being off leash. I have had more issues in designated "Off leash dogs parks" than trails.

But I do agree that 5 months old is too young to be off leash. Rain had a 100% recall from about 14 weeks-6 months, after that she acted like she was deaf. Took probably almost a year to get her recall back
 
#30 ·
My Cody was attacked when he was 19 weeks old. We were out for a morning walk and stopped at a crosswalk waiting for the light to turn. He was just learning to heel and was perfectly behaved on my right side waiting. A man came up behind me with an unmuzzled pit (which is not allowed in Toronto) and sicked his dog on my puppy while his 6 friends sitting on a drop in center stoop laughed and laughed. I was screaming why would you do this over and over while my puppy was hysterically screaming and the Pitt was visciously attacking his head and neck. A bystander later told me and reporters that the man's face was impassive and she is certain he intended to kill my dog. The commotion drew a large crowd of people and eventually he fled and I ran with my screaming puppy until people surrounded me and got me to calm down, call the police and go to the vet. Cody survived with only a puncture would on the side of his head. I continued to socialize him every day - and he has group of dog friends he walks with - but he has definitely been changed by the experience. If a homeless man, street person, or someone with the smell of drugs/alcohol comes up to us on the street he will start barking his head off. Same if he sees a dog with a similar stripped pattern of the Pitt. He will be 2 years old in November. He doesn't respond to strangers much either, if people come up to us on the street he often goes behind my legs and licks their hand by curling his head around my knee. Otherwise- he is not that interested in dogs - he may do a friendly sniff and then he's done, preferring to chase a ball or keep hiking with me if we are out on a wooded trail. It's sad because one incident can undo all the training for a confident happy puppy.
 
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