Glucosamine: How much is too much? - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 7
Thanks: 446
Thanked 453 Times in 321 Posts
Glucosamine: How much is too much?

Can you give too much?

Riley's on Evo Red right now and it's not going so well. I'm really wanting to put him on Orijen, but I just saw that both their adult and their 6 Fish formulas contain 1200 mg of glucosamine and 900 mg of chondroitin per kg. Wow.

So by my calculations (which may or may not be correct) there's about 1200 mg of glucosamine in 35 ounces of food -- roughly 4 cups. He'd be getting almost that amount daily, since he'd probably be getting somewhere between 3 - 3 1/2 cups per day.

That would be in addition to the Cosequin DS he's already on, at 500mg glucosamine / 400 mg chondroitin.

Is that something that should concern me? Is there a level at which point too much glucosamine can be harmful?
LifeOfRiley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:01 PM
In the Moment
 
Penny & Maggie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Heath, TX
Posts: 20,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Images: 128
Thanks: 1,662
Thanked 3,538 Times in 2,428 Posts
according to my conversion table, there is .45 kg in a lb. If we round and say .5, then there would be roughly 2400 mg glucosamine in a pound of food. My crew gets about 100 mg glucosamine/ chondroitin daily.



Betty and the Dallas crew


“Until one has loved an animal a part of one's soul remains unawakened.” A. France
Penny & Maggie's Mom is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:06 PM
IKE- Canine Blood Donor
 
paula bedard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland- By the Chesapeake Bay :)
Posts: 12,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 99
Thanks: 354
Thanked 736 Times in 571 Posts
I was wondering about joint supplements also. Ike's food has recently added joint supplements to it's formula. He's only 2 and I was worried about giving it to him if he doesn't need it. Is there an age too young to be on Joint Sup's if they aren't warranted?
paula bedard is offline  
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Maxs Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Livonia MI
Posts: 4,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 57
Thanked 844 Times in 539 Posts
I have been told it is hard to OD a dog (or any species) on glucosamine, they will remove what they do not need in their waste. What is in dog food is not necessarily 'enough' so supplementing too is a good idea.

As for what age. Here is my PERSONAL opinion. Glucosamine and chondroitin can possibly slow joint degradation. There is no proof it helps though everyone says it does (even me for my back) so there is no proof it can't slow the wear on joints either. However my equine vet says it can not hurt, and perhaps if "other" means of joint maintenance is needed it will enable that to work better. I plan to put my dogs on it when they reach maturity, around 18 months. Teddi was put on as soon as she was dx HD at 9 months, it is a supplement not a medication. I have not seen any issues in any of my animals being on it. My horse has been on for 10 years, my dogs for about 3-4 me just about a year and a half.

I feed Cosequin DS, when I feel Teddi needs "more" help because of her issues, I plan to up to Dausquin which is supposed to be better (more expensive too) but we have hopefully a LONG time of management so I plan to take slow and do what is needed when it is.

I think it is a safe easy supplement.

Ann
URO1 UJJ Casino Farm's Reddi Teddi RN "Teddi" (GR 9 yrs)
USJCH The Captain's Licker's Quicker MX, AXJ, WC "Quinn" (blk lab 6 yr)
HR UCD URO1 UJJ SmokinGold Hoot N Holler MXS MX MXJ T2B UD SH RA WCX VCX CCA Triathlon 2012 GRCA National Specialty "Gabby" (GR 5 yrs)
Always in my Heart - Maxine 12/26/96-10/11/09 Queen of the World!
UACH Casino Farm's Belle Air MXP2 MJP2 "Belle" 5/15/2003 - 6/30/2015
Maxs Mom is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 7
Thanks: 446
Thanked 453 Times in 321 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paula bedard View Post
I was wondering about joint supplements also. Ike's food has recently added joint supplements to it's formula. He's only 2 and I was worried about giving it to him if he doesn't need it. Is there an age too young to be on Joint Sup's if they aren't warranted?
From what I've always heard, the levels found in most foods aren't high enough to have an effect at all, one way or the other.

But I think most foods have a considerably lower level than Orijen. Like Gunner's Core Ocean only has 250/200. I don't think that amount is enough to do anything, really. I'd never seen a food that has 1200mg before, so I want to find out about that before making a switch.
LifeOfRiley is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 7
Thanks: 446
Thanked 453 Times in 321 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
I have been told it is hard to OD a dog (or any species) on glucosamine, they will remove what they do not need in their waste.
I've heard that too, but one thing that concerns me is diabetes. I don't know if it would affect dogs the same way it does people, but I know my grandma couldn't take glucosamine because she was diabetic and her doctors said that it could make matters worse. I don't know if too much glucosamine could actually cause diabetes, or if it was just a matter of possible exacerbation when it's already present.
And like I said, I don't know if it would even carry the same concern with dogs.
LifeOfRiley is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:59 PM
IKE- Canine Blood Donor
 
paula bedard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland- By the Chesapeake Bay :)
Posts: 12,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 99
Thanks: 354
Thanked 736 Times in 571 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeOfRiley View Post
From what I've always heard, the levels found in most foods aren't high enough to have an effect at all, one way or the other.

But I think most foods have a considerably lower level than Orijen. Like Gunner's Core Ocean only has 250/200. I don't think that amount is enough to do anything, really. I'd never seen a food that has 1200mg before, so I want to find out about that before making a switch.
I cannot find on the bag an amount/type for the supplements added to Ike's food, Merrick's Wilderness Blend, just the "Now with Vision, Joint, and Breath elements" Healthy Supplements: Vitamins and minerals

I really like this food, he's done very well on it and loves it. I was worried about the joint sup's added but I guess I don't need to be...
Here are the stats for his food: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/...p?c=14&s=20279
paula bedard is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 07:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny & Maggie's Mom View Post
according to my conversion table, there is .45 kg in a lb. If we round and say .5, then there would be roughly 2400 mg glucosamine in a pound of food. My crew gets about 100 mg glucosamine/ chondroitin daily.
To break it down farther, the Orijen 6 Fish formula specifies there are ~115 grams (.115 kgs) in one measured cup of food, so it would take almost 9 cups of food to reach a full 1200mg of glucosamine and 900mg of chondroitin. Therefore, there's really only 138 mg of glucosamine and 103 mg of chondroitin per cup, maybe enough to give a slight preventative edge to a young dog of average activity (and should not cause any issues for a healthy dog), but not enough to be therapeutic to any dog needing joint supplementation.

As to how much is too much, I've heard as much as 2500 mgs daily being used on larger dogs (though that is an unusually high amount). Unless the dog has diabetes or some other health issue, natural joint supplements are generally very safe and do not cause additional issues (with any excess eliminated in waste). The thing to be careful with re: joint supplements is that they are not regulated (even the "human" ones), so you really want to research the manufacturer, ingredients, sourcing, processing, etc. Also, the powder and liquid forms tend to be purer and better absorbed by the body (the pill forms almost always have fillers and unnecessary addivitives as well).

Last edited by Garfield; 09-24-2009 at 07:19 PM.
Garfield is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 07:08 PM
In the Moment
 
Penny & Maggie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Heath, TX
Posts: 20,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Images: 128
Thanks: 1,662
Thanked 3,538 Times in 2,428 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
To break it down farther, the Orijen 6 Fish fomula specifies there are ~115 grams (.115 kgs) in one measured cup of food, so it would take almost 9 cups of food to reach a full 1200mg of glucosamine and 900mg of chondroitin. Therefore, there's really only 138 mg of glucosamine and 103 mg of chondroitin per cup, maybe enough to give a slight preventative edge to a young dog of average activity (and should not cause any issues for a healthy dog), but not enough to be therapeutic to any dog needing joint supplementation.

As to how much is too much, I've heard as much as 2500 mgs daily being used on larger dogs (though that is an unusually high amount). Unless the dog has diabetes or some other health issue, natural joint supplements are generally very safe and do not cause additional issues (with any excess eliminated in waste). The thing to be careful with re: joint supplements is that they are not regulated (even the "human" ones), so you really want to research the manufacturer, ingredients, sourcing, processing, etc. Also, the powder and liquid forms tend to be purer and better absorbed by the body (the pill forms almost always have fillers and unnecessary addivitives as well).
That makes MUCH more sense. I had never heard of a food having anywhere near therapeutic dosages. Oh, and CORRECTION, my crew gets 1000 ( not 100 ) mg of gl /chon daily.



Betty and the Dallas crew


“Until one has loved an animal a part of one's soul remains unawakened.” A. France
Penny & Maggie's Mom is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 07:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny & Maggie's Mom View Post
That makes MUCH more sense. I had never heard of a food having anywhere near therapeutic dosages. Oh, and CORRECTION, my crew gets 1000 ( not 100 ) mg of gl /chon daily.
Whew! Thanks for the feedback as math & I rarely make sense! It is astounding to see how little there in fact is in food (and Orijen has far more than most!) - if we had to feed therapeutic amounts, we'd all have 500 lb dogs!

p.s. Aha - thought you previously posted about using joint supplements with your dogs. Do you still use The Wholistic Pet Run Free?
Garfield is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome