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Old 09-24-2009, 02:55 PM
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Glucosamine: How much is too much?

Can you give too much?

Riley's on Evo Red right now and it's not going so well. I'm really wanting to put him on Orijen, but I just saw that both their adult and their 6 Fish formulas contain 1200 mg of glucosamine and 900 mg of chondroitin per kg. Wow.

So by my calculations (which may or may not be correct) there's about 1200 mg of glucosamine in 35 ounces of food -- roughly 4 cups. He'd be getting almost that amount daily, since he'd probably be getting somewhere between 3 - 3 1/2 cups per day.

That would be in addition to the Cosequin DS he's already on, at 500mg glucosamine / 400 mg chondroitin.

Is that something that should concern me? Is there a level at which point too much glucosamine can be harmful?
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:01 PM
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according to my conversion table, there is .45 kg in a lb. If we round and say .5, then there would be roughly 2400 mg glucosamine in a pound of food. My crew gets about 100 mg glucosamine/ chondroitin daily.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:06 PM
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I was wondering about joint supplements also. Ike's food has recently added joint supplements to it's formula. He's only 2 and I was worried about giving it to him if he doesn't need it. Is there an age too young to be on Joint Sup's if they aren't warranted?
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:35 PM
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I have been told it is hard to OD a dog (or any species) on glucosamine, they will remove what they do not need in their waste. What is in dog food is not necessarily 'enough' so supplementing too is a good idea.

As for what age. Here is my PERSONAL opinion. Glucosamine and chondroitin can possibly slow joint degradation. There is no proof it helps though everyone says it does (even me for my back) so there is no proof it can't slow the wear on joints either. However my equine vet says it can not hurt, and perhaps if "other" means of joint maintenance is needed it will enable that to work better. I plan to put my dogs on it when they reach maturity, around 18 months. Teddi was put on as soon as she was dx HD at 9 months, it is a supplement not a medication. I have not seen any issues in any of my animals being on it. My horse has been on for 10 years, my dogs for about 3-4 me just about a year and a half.

I feed Cosequin DS, when I feel Teddi needs "more" help because of her issues, I plan to up to Dausquin which is supposed to be better (more expensive too) but we have hopefully a LONG time of management so I plan to take slow and do what is needed when it is.

I think it is a safe easy supplement.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paula bedard View Post
I was wondering about joint supplements also. Ike's food has recently added joint supplements to it's formula. He's only 2 and I was worried about giving it to him if he doesn't need it. Is there an age too young to be on Joint Sup's if they aren't warranted?
From what I've always heard, the levels found in most foods aren't high enough to have an effect at all, one way or the other.

But I think most foods have a considerably lower level than Orijen. Like Gunner's Core Ocean only has 250/200. I don't think that amount is enough to do anything, really. I'd never seen a food that has 1200mg before, so I want to find out about that before making a switch.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
I have been told it is hard to OD a dog (or any species) on glucosamine, they will remove what they do not need in their waste.
I've heard that too, but one thing that concerns me is diabetes. I don't know if it would affect dogs the same way it does people, but I know my grandma couldn't take glucosamine because she was diabetic and her doctors said that it could make matters worse. I don't know if too much glucosamine could actually cause diabetes, or if it was just a matter of possible exacerbation when it's already present.
And like I said, I don't know if it would even carry the same concern with dogs.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeOfRiley View Post
From what I've always heard, the levels found in most foods aren't high enough to have an effect at all, one way or the other.

But I think most foods have a considerably lower level than Orijen. Like Gunner's Core Ocean only has 250/200. I don't think that amount is enough to do anything, really. I'd never seen a food that has 1200mg before, so I want to find out about that before making a switch.
I cannot find on the bag an amount/type for the supplements added to Ike's food, Merrick's Wilderness Blend, just the "Now with Vision, Joint, and Breath elements" Healthy Supplements: Vitamins and minerals

I really like this food, he's done very well on it and loves it. I was worried about the joint sup's added but I guess I don't need to be...
Here are the stats for his food: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/...p?c=14&s=20279
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny & Maggie's Mom View Post
according to my conversion table, there is .45 kg in a lb. If we round and say .5, then there would be roughly 2400 mg glucosamine in a pound of food. My crew gets about 100 mg glucosamine/ chondroitin daily.
To break it down farther, the Orijen 6 Fish formula specifies there are ~115 grams (.115 kgs) in one measured cup of food, so it would take almost 9 cups of food to reach a full 1200mg of glucosamine and 900mg of chondroitin. Therefore, there's really only 138 mg of glucosamine and 103 mg of chondroitin per cup, maybe enough to give a slight preventative edge to a young dog of average activity (and should not cause any issues for a healthy dog), but not enough to be therapeutic to any dog needing joint supplementation.

As to how much is too much, I've heard as much as 2500 mgs daily being used on larger dogs (though that is an unusually high amount). Unless the dog has diabetes or some other health issue, natural joint supplements are generally very safe and do not cause additional issues (with any excess eliminated in waste). The thing to be careful with re: joint supplements is that they are not regulated (even the "human" ones), so you really want to research the manufacturer, ingredients, sourcing, processing, etc. Also, the powder and liquid forms tend to be purer and better absorbed by the body (the pill forms almost always have fillers and unnecessary addivitives as well).

Last edited by Garfield; 09-24-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
To break it down farther, the Orijen 6 Fish fomula specifies there are ~115 grams (.115 kgs) in one measured cup of food, so it would take almost 9 cups of food to reach a full 1200mg of glucosamine and 900mg of chondroitin. Therefore, there's really only 138 mg of glucosamine and 103 mg of chondroitin per cup, maybe enough to give a slight preventative edge to a young dog of average activity (and should not cause any issues for a healthy dog), but not enough to be therapeutic to any dog needing joint supplementation.

As to how much is too much, I've heard as much as 2500 mgs daily being used on larger dogs (though that is an unusually high amount). Unless the dog has diabetes or some other health issue, natural joint supplements are generally very safe and do not cause additional issues (with any excess eliminated in waste). The thing to be careful with re: joint supplements is that they are not regulated (even the "human" ones), so you really want to research the manufacturer, ingredients, sourcing, processing, etc. Also, the powder and liquid forms tend to be purer and better absorbed by the body (the pill forms almost always have fillers and unnecessary addivitives as well).
That makes MUCH more sense. I had never heard of a food having anywhere near therapeutic dosages. Oh, and CORRECTION, my crew gets 1000 ( not 100 ) mg of gl /chon daily.
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny & Maggie's Mom View Post
That makes MUCH more sense. I had never heard of a food having anywhere near therapeutic dosages. Oh, and CORRECTION, my crew gets 1000 ( not 100 ) mg of gl /chon daily.
Whew! Thanks for the feedback as math & I rarely make sense! It is astounding to see how little there in fact is in food (and Orijen has far more than most!) - if we had to feed therapeutic amounts, we'd all have 500 lb dogs!

p.s. Aha - thought you previously posted about using joint supplements with your dogs. Do you still use The Wholistic Pet Run Free?
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