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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 04:55 PM
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There's no such thing as the perfect kibble

Kibble is Kibble is STILL Kibble!
http://www.thewholedog.org/artkibble.html
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:02 PM
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My Pack thrives on Fromm and I love the way you can switch flavors and protein source without prior blending.
But, when it comes down to it, even the highest quality kibble is still kibble.
It is for our conveinance in every aspect. From storage, to cost, to feeding, etc etc.
I'm pretty darn sure if I put a bowl of fresh liver, lungs, & heart with a big rib bone on top next to anyyyyy kind of kibble that The Pack will look at me like I'm crazzzzzy before picking bowl 1.
It's just too bad that we don't have the means, time or money to feed them what they really would love to eat.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
There's no such thing as the perfect kibble

Kibble is Kibble is STILL Kibble!
Pizza is Pizza is STILL Pizza!

My favorite food, BTW But, some pizza is better than others.

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Originally Posted by sharlin View Post
It's just too bad that we don't have the means, time or money to feed them what they really would love to eat.
Agreed. I would love to feed raw, but I have too many obstacles in the way. I am about to start feeding raw on the weekends and kibble during the week. I will occasionally top the kibble with some green tripe. I hope that works out well.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealle View Post
Pizza is Pizza is STILL Pizza!

My favorite food, BTW But, some pizza is better than others.



Agreed. I would love to feed raw, but I have too many obstacles in the way. I am about to start feeding raw on the weekends and kibble during the week. I will occasionally top the kibble with some green tripe. I hope that works out well.
I.m sure it will.
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Last edited by sharlin; 02-17-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:44 PM
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I.m sure it will. You might want to drop T&T from above post a note if you're thinking about going semi-raw. She has studied and investigated dog foods more than anyone I know. She's provided me with information about feeding and nutrition which my Pack is VERY thankful I've incorporated.
PM sent. Thanks for the tip!
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
There's no such thing as the perfect kibble

Kibble is Kibble is STILL Kibble!
http://www.thewholedog.org/artkibble.html

I hate to tell you, but the position of this website and Dr. has recently been proven wrong by genetic analysis done at a top university in Sweden.

Dogs are in fact omnivores and had a very different evolutionary path than wolves. The university's analysis of the genetic make-up is clear that dogs have a very different digestive set-up than wolves and other carnivores. It really isn't clear if even wolves are carnivores.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...wolves_to_dogs

So kibble actually would represent a more natural diet than raw, a combination of cooked meat, fat and starch.

This study would be consistent with the 2006 position of the NRC that dogs are omnivores.

Last edited by WasChampionFan; 02-18-2013 at 06:41 AM.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WasChampionFan View Post
I hate to tell you, but the position of this website and Dr. has recently been proven wrong by genetic analysis done at a top university in Sweden.

Dogs are in fact omnivores and had a very different evolutionary path than wolves. The university's analysis of the genetic make-up is clear that dogs have a very different digestive set-up than wolves and other carnivores. It really isn't clear if even wolves are carnivores.

Starchy diet may have transformed wolves to dogs | Genes & Cells | Science News

So kibble actually would represent a more natural diet than raw, a combination of cooked meat, fat and starch.

This study would be consistent with the 2006 position of the NRC that dogs are omnivores.
Starchy diet MAY have transformed wolves to dogs" - Title of article


I don't think that's a resounding rebuttal to any argument.

The difference between todays domesticated dogs and todays gray wolf is at most 0.1 percent of their nuclear gene sequence. To put this in perspective the analogy would be:


Think of your dog as an apple pie with a diameter of 12 inches.
To remove a slice of the pie that is NOT a wolf you'd have to cut a sliver measuring just over 1/32 of an inch along the crust, less than a milimeter.
Disregard what you've cut off.
Everything else in front of you is wolf.


There's a whole break down of carnivore to omnivore to monovore that has transpiried in our dogs today in Chapter 12 of Ted Kerasote's new book Pukka's Promise. He spent time with wolf experts such as Douglas Smith, the head of the Yellowstone Wolf Project, as well as pouring over studies and data on both sides of the equation. This book looks at what he considers to be the top 5 reasons our furkids don't have the longevity today that they should.


And to say that there is a question of wolves being carnivores when they are the apex predator of their territory doesn't make any sense.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WasChampionFan View Post
I hate to tell you, but the position of this website and Dr. has recently been proven wrong by genetic analysis done at a top university in Sweden.

Dogs are in fact omnivores and had a very different evolutionary path than wolves. The university's analysis of the genetic make-up is clear that dogs have a very different digestive set-up than wolves and other carnivores. It really isn't clear if even wolves are carnivores.

Starchy diet may have transformed wolves to dogs | Genes & Cells | Science News

So kibble actually would represent a more natural diet than raw, a combination of cooked meat, fat and starch.

This study would be consistent with the 2006 position of the NRC that dogs are omnivores.
I don't think it is so black vs white. Carnivore vs omnivore. I think there is a grey area. You can label carnivore or omnivore if you wish. If their was a scale with true herbivore being 0 true omnivore being 5 and true carnivore being 10, I would say that dogs are about an 8.5. There is no question that dogs have a strong preference for a carnivore diet in the wild. However, they will on occasion eat fruits and vegetables. They did not eat cooked food or kibble until people started cooking it for them. There seems to be a correlation between the time that dogs started eating 100% kibble diets and the time that more dogs started having "allergies" and other physical issues such as hip dysplasia.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:56 AM
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Artbuc..............remember the source of the information
I have done my own research on Brothers and the now defunct Pied Piper. I suggest you do the same before discrediting WCF's statements. I doubt if you will want to feed your dog any kibble made at the former Pied Piper facility, now owned and operated by Great Life.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharlin View Post
Think of your dog as an apple pie with a diameter of 12 inches. To remove a slice of the pie that is NOT a wolf you'd have to cut a sliver measuring just over 1/32 of an inch along the crust, less than a milimeter.
Disregard what you've cut off. Everything else in front of you is wolf.
I am not a geneticist but I think your analogy is not relevant. Just a couple gene pairs switching on or off can mean the difference between life and death. To say dogs and wolves are 99.9% the same means nothing unless you understand the .1% difference. Sort of like humans and chimps.
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